Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast about Lighting Matters. Our unflinching conversations uncover the nuances and complexities which shape the craft of lighting design.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: We explore the pivotal whys behind a lighting designer's choices and find honest answers to your most challenging lighting questions. Because lighting matters.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the podcast, Lighting Matters. I got Avi and my esteemed co host and world traveler.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, this is Lisa Reid, and it's awesome to be recording another episode of the podcast with you, Avi.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I love these short Lisa Avi segments that we have every once in a while, especially again, as you just came back from how long of a flight was it to Dubai? Like how. Oh, my gosh, I can't even imagine.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Okay, so for those who haven't been hearing me talk about it exhaustively, I just got back from Dubai. It was a 15 hour flight from Dubai to Chicago. Really nice, nonstop economy class, though.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: That'll make it a little tough to stretch out the legs there.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was okay. I got an exit row on the way over there. That was. That was good stuff. Really nice leg room there. But yeah, I was there for light plus intelligent buildings or light. Middle East Conference. First time attending, needless to say.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: How long has that conference been going on? I don't even know.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Longer than I thought. Shoot. I don't know. I think 13 years or something. A while. Yeah.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Wow. Okay.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: It was so international here in the US we're so geographically isolated. You know, it's a big cone country. And it was so awesome to meet so many people from India, Australia, Germany, Greece, the uk, Dubai, of course.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: So I actually got an opportunity to go to a conference last year in Madrid. I felt the same way. It's like we are so good at our. Our little country. It's not little. Right. But as soon as you break out, it's like different languages, different challenges, different. But I think you were telling me a little bit earlier. But the same challenges, right? With. When it comes to a lighting group and lighting community. And lighting.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah. That was so fulfilling. You know, we gush about the lighting community and how much we all love each other, but it just. It's true. It extended across the ocean and the folks were just the highlight of the trip. I met so many amazing people. And Avi, you're going to love this part. I want to shout out to Anthony, one of the people I met started telling me about this podcast he's been listening to.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Really? What podcast is that?
[00:02:58] Speaker B: He said Lighting Matters and I just started laughing and he was like, what? So I said, well, yeah, that's me. And he said, oh my gosh, I'm only on episode two, but I thought your voice sounded familiar. Anyway, so he was telling me to listen because he, he was enjoying it. So there you go. Thanks for listening across over in Dubai, Anthony.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you, Anthony. It's actually quite amazing how far a reach we've gotten with the podcast and number of followers and we thank all of you. It's really amazing. And I think we try and plug this as much as possible, but there's ever any comments, questions, topics, people who want to join us, you can email Lisa, you can email myself, you can email the podcast. I think you can find either one of us in some way. We'd love to have you and expand the topics.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: So I'll tell you just a little bit more about the conference and then we can, we can talk, talk about other lighting things. But Dubai, we should talk about Dubai and the architecture there. The longest can, world's longest cantilever, 100 foot cantilever up about, I don't remember, 40 stories, maybe not that far. Wow. With a swimming pool on top. The pool had to be, the pool had to be plastic just because of weight issues. So, yeah, infinity pool. That was very cool to see both up close and from a distance. One of the things that I did over there, thanks to Martin and Sharon, is judge the lighting awards. So I got a really good inside look at the designs that were being submitted for awards and the thought process that was going into those designs. The designers at this, this finals stage of judging would come in personally, you know, spent a couple of minutes telling us about the design and why they did what they did. And then we were able to ask some questions. So a little kind of 10 minute interview. And one of the things that I started to notice over and over, you know, you have this wild architecture and this, this incredible skyline with all of these really significant buildings, one after the other after the other and all super unique. And, you know, it starts to become a competition between the building owners. And so one of the common refrains that I started to hear was the use of restraint and the lighting designer's responsibility to encourage the owners to use restraint with lighting and not just, you know, rainbow everything or do chasing or, you know, all of the, all the things. And, you know, that was also a moment where I thought, oh, we're all kind of looking for the same thing as lighting designers, right? We want to keep it classy. We want to provide good, quality, comfortable lighting designs that are inspiring and use restraint. That was probably something I heard more over there than I even hear here in the US that's kind of an afterthought. After all of our value engineering seems to come first and then restraint. But. But that was one of the highlights.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: So I'm curious, have you been a judge for IES Awards and IALD Awards?
[00:06:15] Speaker B: Not at the national or international level. I've done it quite a bit locally and regionally. Okay. Yeah. Have you?
[00:06:24] Speaker A: I've done IES regionally.
I've never done iald. I always joke that to win an ILD award, the design has to have immaculate idea. Like, you know, it has to be a religious awakening for it to happen.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: But I find very interesting what you were saying is that there's an interview portion with the lighting designers.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know if that happens. I don't think that happens. No other awards.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: The challenge is, how do you take a project that you worked on for three years or four years or eight years, or in my case, O'Hare. We started in 2019, and I think it's going to be done. I don't know what the latest public is, so I can't say anything more. But, I mean, we started in 2019. How do you talk about that project in 450 words?
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Distill that to 300 words and 10 pictures, please.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I was. It was interesting. I was actually looking over some old projects that we submitted, like Steppenwolf and here in Chicago, and that has this wicked cool facade anyway. But I see what we could have done better in that submission, which is just focus on the wicked cool exterior. The interior is very nice, very well done. Yada, yada, yada. Really, if you just focus on the exterior. Right. But when it comes to an airport project, or like Julio, I think we've recently had on the podcast, he talked a little bit about Terminal 5, and they got a ILD award for that. I think they also won an IES award for it as well. And really, they. They've done a lot of different work at Terminal 5, but they focused only on that one area that has the down lights and the glowy cove thing.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Yeah. As a matter of fact, I flew out of there on my way to Dubai, so I took a bunch of pictures.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: What do you. What do you think now, being in it versus seeing all the photos?
[00:08:23] Speaker B: The area with the photo, the one with the glowy and the down lights, was definitely my favorite. It was sweet. Relief. I was a little dizzied by the down lights in the corridors leading to that area. So that was kind of the. At the gate with the combination of the glowing and the down lights. But, yeah, getting there was, you know, and maybe that's by design, sort of this busy. That's the transient spot where you're moving around. But, whew, lots of downlights. And then the shiny floor was a lot. But then, yeah, you get to that gate, the part that is in all the photos, and it just feels so good.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: That's awesome, right? Lighting making you feel good. I mean, the architecture's there. What time were you flying?
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Oh, like 6pm See?
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Oh. And you needed that electric light source to actually see where you were going. And yes, the architecture is there, but the electric light is what allowed you to see the architecture. Very important. Six o'clock in January.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, we talk about darkness a lot, but like I said, the difference between the contrast between the experience of those two spaces and one made me want to get through it as fast as I could and get to the end. Like, there's a lot. And that wasn't using darkness, really, but different kinds of light sources. So there's. Yeah, the impact of knowing when to create contrast, whether that's with darkness or maybe visually stimulating sources, you know, is really, really cool. I remember once sitting in the airport in St. Louis, sitting and having coffee. Somebody I knew had a long layover, so we sat for two hours and had coffee. And we were sitting in a part of the terminal that had color changing it. I don't think it was ever meant to be this way, but it was changing. So it was rainbow cycling. And after about an hour and a half, this other person's a lighting designer too. And so both of us were like, I gotta get out of here. It's just. It was changing too much too fast. So it's designed to be a transitional space. It's designed to be a space where you're moving through it. And so when you sit and stay in a space that's not meant to be that way, lighting can make you crazy.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I could see that. It's interesting.
I hadn't thought of that. So I was. Airports. I was recently in Kansas City, as I think our group knows. We both went to Kuwait Rock Chalk. I went back to see a game and see my college buddies that I haven't seen in nine years since my wedding. So it was. It was a good time. But I got to see the new MCI and wow, what a difference. From the original, you know, ABC half circle. I mean, I remember flying out of there on September 14th. I think it was Rosh Hashanah 2011. And I think I can admit this to this group, you know, being of Middle Eastern descent, I mean, I'm a Chicagoan, but there was some extra screening of yours truly through all of that, but there was no room in that airport to do any of that.
And so this new airport is just spectacular. I mean, the room. And the Kansas City needed.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Needed that so badly.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: They really needed it. And. But what was interesting to me is now I remember they upgraded the rental car facility, so before they did the terminal. So now you arrive at a rental car facility that is extremely dated now because it. Well, first of all, was designed to have three different buses for three different terminals. So the bus pull up is. Is way bigger than you need it to be. And then you go up to escalators, and that's kind of aged. I find it so interesting to think about this, you know, like a big project like an airport, especially for, like, a Kansas City. I mean, even Chicago, St. Louis, even these big airports, you can't update them all that often. And how do you manage that, that update cycle? And really, I think we talked a little bit about this in the past, but, like, about 10 years ago, we were all transitioning to LED, but all those jobs still have T5HO and some metal halide. What are they gonna do? Because they can't. They can't just switch it to led. I mean, there's some people that are doing that, and it doesn't look all that great.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: No, I think I. Oh, man. Like, when you start to talk about that, I think about sustainability, too, and how to keep things looking nice and current. I mean, in Dubai, everything's under 20 years old. Everything's brand new. You know, it's gorgeous. How do you keep things looking good without being wasteful or tossing things out every 10 years? I don't have an answer, but I think that's. That's kind of what you're getting at, right?
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, how do you. How do you keep it up to date in complexities? I mean, I think the arch, right, you guys had to redo the arch because you just couldn't get the light bulbs. And the whole thing was just crazy to maintain. And luckily, the Park Service, right, like, they get the funds to finally fix that. I mean, there are federal buildings, state buildings, airports, train stations, all this infrastructure all over the place, and even people's offices. And I would argue, because I always like to bring up the 5,000 square foot facilities that still using T12 lamps and they just A, don't have the money or B, don't have the time. Right. Maybe they're 24, seven operations or something like that. Like can't remove the lights right away. And then to your point, unfortunately for me, I sometimes think of it secondarily, but sustainability, right. If it's T12s, that's a lot of stuff you're throwing out.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: You know, is there a route that's better that is electrically code approved? Right. Like, I like to remind people that tombstones in those fixtures are not rated to have 120 volts run through them. So, you know, there's a lot of people just putting in LEDs and wiring those tombstones to 120 volts. That's not necessarily blessed by the, the powers that be. And it's not a money grab. It's literally just something that's not rated to do what you're trying to do.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: So there's a sustainability aspect, but also like, what about quality? And I think this is what we talk a lot about on the podcast. I think that any situation could always have value in having a lighting Designer, even that T12 upgrade.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Exactly. How do we get lighting design services to those kind of facilities?
[00:15:12] Speaker A: And I think it starts with advocacy, and I welcome a different word for that. I know advocacy has a different connotation to people, especially in the United States. And what's going on right now, this is, I guess we should say it's the end of January in 2025, so we'll leave it at that.
But how do you advocate or educate?
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Well, let's define advocacy. What is that? I mean, you started education.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Education.
And man, there's, there's a lot to the education. Right. Who, what for sure. Where, how, why? How do they get paid? Right. So I think there's education, I think there's a marketing or an advertising aspect to it.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: I look at the landscape designers, look at how they have advanced in the last 10, 15 years to a point where. I don't know about you, but it's almost a requirement in most of the big RFPs I see along with MEP. And then I would also add our acoustical friends. They have really.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: They're out there. Yeah, they are. I feel like, I feel like we're in the same bucket as acoustics sometimes, you know, as this sort of would be nice to have, but the project has to support it when in reality I mean, they can make the same arguments that we do about lighting. Right. The sound is one of the biggest complaints in healthcare environments and any kind of 24 hour facilities, any kind of where you're trying to work. So they've done a good job of advocating what are they doing that we could borrow in the lighting field.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Right. What have the acousticians done, what have the landscape designers done? And then you're seeing other avenues. I think it's a little bit more quiet, says more technical cost consultants, spec writers. And then of course, you have, you know, door hardware people. I was recently looking at a project and there were two pages of all the consultants that were involved in the project we're on. It's like amazing what you need to put together a complex building.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Right, right. It's just gotten more and more specialized.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: But lighting is this thing that is. Well, it's a nice to have and the scope of work. So first of all, you have the nice to have a lighting designer and sometimes you have to really advocate to include them. And of course, we love the people who advocate for lighting design.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Clients.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: But then the second part of it is the scope. Right. And I think that's actually really challenging in twofolds. I think there is. What are you actually gonna do? Right. Are you actually gonna draft? Are you actually gonna release sheets? There's a very technical aspect to scope, for sure.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Which is not where I thought you were going.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: But there's the other part, which is how do you compare Studio Gang to Salman, Corbel, Benz? How do you compare that to hok? How do you compare a HOK to a SOM or a Gensler? They are artists. So you could take it to another level, which is walking around Nelson Atkins. How do you compare Matisse and Monet? Or Monet. Monet. Or you have a conversation with those people to see what you want to do.
I don't know about you. It's been a long time since there was a conversation between me and somebody else who had bid the job about hiring us versus just looking at pricing.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: Right. Getting to the what is it that you're gonna create. It's getting more into the how are people going to feel when they're in the space that you designed versus a space that either didn't have a designer or was designed by someone else.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the. I think we talked about this a little bit with Rachel. The art and the science. The science. You can hire an engineer to figure out the science fair. But I would argue you're hiring a lighting designer for the art because they balance the art with the science. But an Avie Moore versus a Julio versus a Lisa. We have different thoughts and different ideas and different life experiences which ultimately produce different art.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: And wouldn't you want to have that art conversation? Right.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Of having.
You know, I was just telling someone that's why it's important in our studio that we hire people with all different kinds of backgrounds, too. Right. Because you get that mixture of ideas and you get better ideas by building on each other. This is not where I thought you were going, but I'm so inspired.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: So, beyond education. Sorry, if we circle it back beyond education, how do we define advocacy for our profession?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: I mean, it comes kind of to what I was just saying about helping people understand or having a conversation about how someone's going to feel in this space. I think that's what. Somehow we have to evoke that feeling without just these. All these words about, you know, it's going to be low glare and it's going to be visually comfortable, and it's going to have adequate foot candles. You know, nobody cares about that outside of lighting designers. They just care how they feel.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: And it's so interesting that in what you just said, it went technical real quick. Right. Foot candles, glare, I would add maintainable. Right. Very technical aspects of it. But getting back to what's it going to feel like? And I think that therein lies the challenge of our job. And. And I wonder if we can learn from landscape designers and from acousticians. Because, you know, landscape design, again, I'm. I'm a novice. I've done some outside. I hire somebody to do other things. But I mean, what it's going to look like in five years when all that stuff grows in. Right.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: I'm interested to know how that gets sold. You know, like, how. How do you explain that to a customer? Just like we were just talking about the feel of the space. Right.
Well, this. This garden's going to look amazing in five years. You just gotta trust me. Right.
And the same thing with acoustics. I don't know. When you were at ku, did you take that acoustics class?
[00:21:48] Speaker B: I did not. That's one of my two big regrets. I had the book, I was enrolled, and something happened with my schedule, and so I had to change to another class. And I hung onto the book forever.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: So I did. God, I wish I could remember his name. Cause he, like, wrote the book.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: He wrote the book. I know.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: What's his name, but it was so fascinating. To think about. And I think acoustics are another thing where there's a little bit of a. I know how this works. This is why you have to do this thing. But you don't know until it's done. Right.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Like, ours is so visual. We talked about modeling light so that people can see and understand it. How do you model sound for help, help a client envision sound?
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Well, I mean, a lot of the studios I know now have sound labs, so they can put you in the theater, they can put you in the office and help you understand what it'll sound like. Right. They can tune the space that they've created to that, you know, with us, obviously, we can render. We can put people's peopling glasses and goggles and they can walk around the room. So there is that element. And I would think that a lighting designer is going to do that more than maybe an electrical engineer based on time associated with the project. Right. But again, does that invoke feeling? Have we gotten to the answer of it's going to feel better when you hire Rebirket or more lights or whoever? Right.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah. It's still sort of. That's still visual. Right. That's still a cerebral experience when you're looking at a rendering.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: And it's so funny because I immediately want to go to. Yeah, but it'll be on budget or, you know, all the things. Episode two. Right. Or. Or to be maintained. Right. There's so many technical aspects of this super creative thing we do, but the value that we bring in the end comes back to feeling, look and feel, look and feel of the space.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: I tend to not want to go here, but, you know, fear of loss is one of the great motivators. And, you know, when the lighting's wrong, so maybe you have to go there. You know, here's. Here's what's going to look like if you don't hire a lighting designer.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: We need an example of. And hopefully anyone listening out there can. Can share back with us. But we need an example of a place where that fear has worked out in a marketing world.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: It seems like marketing has very much moved to the positive effects. Maybe again, I don't know. We're trying.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: There's a whole lot of.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Seems to work really well for negativity. But I don't know about.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: There's a really bad street here in St. Louis. I've used that a couple of times. Hey, you don't want to end up like that, so let us help you.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Well, and we've talked A lot to restaurateurs about our feelings on, you know, that it's a theatrical production and a casino at the same time. Right. Restaurants make the most money on the liquor. So, you know, when you dim the lights and everybody listening to the podcast already heard this story, and those who haven't, they'll share it now going forward. Right. But I always talk about how. Just watch. Next time you're in a restaurant when the lights dim down real fast, what everybody does, they look at their watch. Oh, always. It's amazing.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Watch.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Always look at their watch. Because what time's the theater show?
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Nanny or babysitter parking or what time is it? I gotta wake up early in the morning. Right. You, by adjusting the light. A technical thing. You have just broken the suspension is my favorite word from Kansas. Suspension of disbelief. You are lost in the conversation. You are lost in the world that has been created at your table.
Something triggered you, and you are now, wait. Oh, yeah, I'm in Chicago and it's 2 degrees outside. Oh, and it's going to snow tomorrow. Oh, do I need to get going?
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: As opposed to the lights dimming naturally. You don't know what time it is. A waiter comes over, hey, would you like another bottle?
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: We're still having a great conversation. And then maybe somebody has to get up and comes back and says, oh, you realize what time it is? But as a restaurateur, I just sold you that bottle of wine.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: I mean, I guess you could use it if you want to turn tables faster. Dim those lights, get people out.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Or I always. I always say the get the out lights. Right?
[00:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: We actually, we actually experienced that earlier this week at a restaurant. And we were the last ones in the restaurant. Restaurant was closed. And it was actually a restaurant I designed. And they hit the on button and all the lights went to full. And we're all sitting there like, oh, yeah, okay, I guess it is time for us to go. Right. Like, but. But there's your case in point. Right. Like, we were just enjoying ourselves. We were still drinking and we had paid our tab. We're just enjoying ourselves. And, you know, then all the lights turn on.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: Well, that's the thing. Lights make people react. Lights make people do things.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: They make you move faster down that one corridor and then relax in the next location. Right, yeah. So there's a lot of feeling and timeline and story in lighting design, but it seems like it's so easy to come back to the technical.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Sure. Well, and they're interwoven that's the thing that's special about lighting design.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: It's so unique that, that we're thinking about both at the same time. I've really been thinking a lot this year about holding two seemingly opposite truths at the same time and finding, finding that line. I think the magic really happens when you can hold two seemingly opposite ideas and make them both true at once. That's the magical moment. I spoke about that a little bit in Dubai.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Yeah. It's not right brain and left brain. It's right down the center.
And the best things that come out of our office are the ones that are right in the middle. Right. Like you, you blended all that super technical, crazy, ridiculously low budget, but you got a space that is just incredible to be in for those technical elements. Right. And then I'd bring it all the way back to how do you Write that in 450 words?
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Exactly. And, and that's how we got here.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Well, because education, advocacy, all those things, our industry is currently advocating ourselves. Right. Reed Brickett. Lighting design does amazing work. Right. More Lights does great work. Amazing work. And we share our stuff. But if it isn't something that could be described in 450 words as amazing, it's not something that gets nationally discussed. And the architects and interior designers are talking about architecture and interior that are lit, but they're not talking about light. They're talking about architecture and interior. So how do we advocate for the 5,000 square foot fitness facility, the one I did for my mom that used a lighting designer? Right. And how do we talk about the latest McDonald's design? Right. I think they have done a really good job. Derry Berrigan did a, did a McDonald's that was lead platinum Zero Energy had a lighting control system in it. Why aren't we talking about that?
[00:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And supporting each other.
And I think that's what we can do as a, as a group. You know, we've been talking about how we can do that as, as the IALD and internationally support each other. I want to talk about, oh, my goodness, so many things. The one person I met there was the lighting designer for the relighting of the Acropolis in Greece. Someone else I met did some lighting on the Sydney Opera House. I mean, like, we should be lifting up, you know, these are professionals. These are no small task. Right. They know what they're doing. But when you talked about the small space, I do have to share one story. Our neighbors in our building, at our office, Webster Arts is their name. They, they're an arts organization for our little town. And we designed the lighting for their studio a while back. It was actually a little pro bono job. The reps pitched in. Wonderful, wonderful organization. They were talking to a friend of mine who I recently helped design his lighting for his new doctor's office. Small office, good friend, helped him with the lighting. Webster Arts was there talking to him about getting some art for the walls in the office. And they said, I really love the space. It's so, so warm and inviting. It's not like a typical sterile doctor's office. And, you know, they said, yeah, that's, that's what we were going for. And. And then they said, well, and we also used a lighting designer. And it was so, so amazing that these two very small clients of ours found each other and found out that they had both worked with, with our company for lighting design and what a difference it made.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: And that's the word of mouth, right? We have to advocate for everybody's work. And I think you can create a line as a professional member of the iald, because we don't have anything else, really. And if you're a professional member and you have done work, we. As an organization, I mean, I'm not affiliate with said organization other than being a member that. I think that organization should tell the stories of those projects. Tell the story of Webster Arts. Tell the story of Tash Wellness. Sorry, Fitness. Yes, the name. I keep forgetting what she calls it. Ma. I'm sorry I forget what you call it.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: But. But yes, tell those stories. And not just the St. Louis Arch or the Sydney Opera House.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Right. Because we need the homeowner to think about it. I forget who I was talking to. Oh, no, it was when I was in Kansas City. It's like, we should create a relationship with Ace, Home Depot, Lowe's, Menards. And I'm going to pose this question to you. If ILD came to you, Lisa, and said, hey, you're responsible for the Home Depot in St. Louis at this corner, we need somebody to be at a table from 9 to 11 to just answer questions in aisle number one and maybe answer questions about aisle number two and aisle number three, which, for those of you who aren't Home Depot aficionados, aisle one is always light bulbs. Aisle two is typically electrical. It depends on the layout. But then they have all those fans and all that other stuff back. But if they were to come to you and say, can you or somebody like every month pick a Saturday, like go hang out for two hours and answer questions, would you go? Would you.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: Would you do it, Avi. Nobody has asked. And if I'm ever in that aisle looking, if I'm ever in that aisle, there are always two or three confused looking people scratching their heads going, which one do I pick? And I always volunteer to help them. Yeah, absolutely. What if. What a cool idea.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: I mean, there's how you start. And what's amazing is, I mean, I just happen to be. So I go every first Saturday with my boys and Home Depot does like a kids thing. It's free.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Is that the little craft thing? Woodcrafts? Yeah.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: I mean, I've run into architects that I know, I've run into engineers, I've run into business owners. Everybody shops at a home store for stuff for their house. That's a great place to start advocating for the amazing stuff we do. I don't know, you know, like, there's a way to like build this and I think you have to start small, but you need kind of a big organization to hang your hat behind to say, oh, this is an aviat. More lights. Wanting to set up a table so more lights can get more business. No, this is Avi Moore, a member of the International association of Lighting Designers who would like to assist your customers by selecting the best lighting for their houses. And maybe we can't do this today, maybe this is something we have to do in a few years once we get some more information. But these people specify only the best. So these people aren't going to necessarily recommend the I'll use non brand name, low non brand name light bulb things they're going to most likely recommend. And I will use the, the brand name now because why not the Philips smart light bulb that happens to be $38 was the other thing that's down the shelf at the bottom. That's $2. Right. So now you've asked these people to be in your store, we're going to suggest the best thing and it just happens to be more expensive because it is better. Yes.
[00:35:25] Speaker B: And I've used both in my home. I know this from experience.
[00:35:29] Speaker A: I mean, I still have those, really? The original Philips L Prize lamps, the honeycomb top, I still have those around my house burning full bore. But I can tell you that my best friend has bought light bulbs at a warehouse club and has replaced those at least twice.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: So you know, there is quality. But again, but other people, and I think this is the beautiful thing, and I feel like this has to be said, is that if somebody were to come to us at that table and we were to say, like this is really cool. Back in the day I used to say that I own Philip stock. I don't any more. But if somebody's like, I'm. I'm not paying $35 for a light bulb. Right. Great. I don't sell that. Let me help you find the next best thing.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Like yeah, yeah.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Daylight or I forget what they call them. I like soft light, soft white and then there's warm white. I mean there's three different. Like can't you just like call it what it is?
[00:36:34] Speaker B: Soft is the one. What color is soft?
[00:36:37] Speaker A: Well, and it depends on whether it's Fiat, ge, Phillips or Sylvania. They're all slightly different.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: And we could tell people that in the aisle, they don't know that.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Right. And also just be honest. Right. If you're at Home Depot, you're going to find Phillips. If you go to Menards, I believe you're going to find Sylvania. And if you're going to go to Lowe's, you're going to find ge. I think I have.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: You've obviously had more home projects going than me recently.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: But yeah, I think there's something for advocating for our profession where it begins in the home. And there's plenty of our friend lighting designers that do super high end homes. We've done a few. But there's also just the one on the corner. I would throw out this too because I just so feel so passionate about what we do. Even the low income housing projects that are race to the bottom for people who are in desperate need of a warm place to stay. Lighting design is not on the top of the list for that kind of a project. And it is wrong because there is a way to be extremely efficient with light and provide adequate lighting for those spaces and do it right. But there's fee for starchitects and those projects and there's obviously fee for acoustics and landscape and, and MEP because it's required. But I would argue that lighting even more so and more important. Yeah, especially even this time of year, kids are doing a homework under electric light, not under daylight. And so they're spending that time and can have separate conversations. I think we're going to have Kevin Hauser on pretty soon so we'll be able to talk about some of the science that I, I listen to him to learn what the light is.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: Right, right. Light and health as a whole. I mean, just so fascinating in true style.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: We've been a lot of different places, but I think, you know, we have to keep carrying on this Conversation about the amazing things that light can do and that the dollars are just one piece of it. There's all these other elements that are so important and if you reach out to the right lighting designer, there's always a way to make it work. I think I can promise anybody listening, there will be a lighting designer that's right for the type of project you're working on and they will make it look amazing at a point that you can afford.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: And check off all those other technical.
[00:39:19] Speaker B: Things and make the dollars work. Right, Exactly.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: It is not a luxury.
[00:39:24] Speaker B: You were talking earlier about Scope and where I thought you were going to go is, you know, sometimes then lighting designer Scope is limited to just, just the lobby, which is, which is fine, we'll take it. But you know, some of the, the back of house spaces are where people are spending their whole eight hour a day, 40 hours a week work life, you know, and so that's getting to the same point. It's not a luxury, it's something that people need for, for their well being.
[00:39:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, it's funny because I was going to go to Scope of. Well, I'm not going to do drawings.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: Or I'm going to charge extra for lighting control anyway.
[00:39:59] Speaker B: Well, there's always more to talk about.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: There's always more. And Lisa, I love our little conversations that we get to share with the rest of the world now, which is amazing. And we. Please, we'll say it again. We said it earlier in the podcast. Any thoughts, comments, questions, topics, people who would be interested in joining us? We would love to hear from you. You can find Lisa, you can find me both at the podcast at our companies. You can also email Lisa@lightingmatterspodcast.com avi@lightingmatterspodcast.com if you can't find us, keep. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, keep listening and.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for listening. And if you. I just would add to what ABHI said. If you're interested in advocating for the lighting profession, then contact us about that too.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: Sorry Lisa, that was a perfect way to end. But I gotta throw one more thing out there too. We are also in search of sponsors and we would love. If you are interested in sponsoring, reach out to either Lisa or I. We have all kinds of creative sponsorship packages. This is something that Lisa and I feel very strongly about continuing. But you know, takes a village and if we can have some assistance with the village, we'd be all about it.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: You've got a global audience. Just saying.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Lisa, you have a wonderful day.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: You too.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: Thank you everybody. We'll catch you soon.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: Lighting Matters as we wrap up, we want to reiterate how much we value your time, and we hope you found it as much fun to listen to as we had creating it. Remember to like it and share this content with your friends and colleagues.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: The opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the sponsors. Our content has general application, but we recommend obtaining personalized guidance from a professional IALD Lighting Design Planner, such as RBLD or More Lights for your next endeavor.
