Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast about Lighting Matters. Our unflinching conversations uncover the nuances and complexities which shape the craft of lighting design.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: We explore the pivotal whys behind a lighting designer's choices and find honest answers to your most challenging lighting questions. Because lighting matters.
Hi, welcome to the Lighting Matters podcast. I'm Lisa Reid with Reed Burkitt, Lighting Design. And I'm here with my co host, Avi.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Hey, Avi Moore with morelight. And we have a great guest with us today, Rachel Fitzgerald from stantec. Thank you for joining us.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and to get to chat with you both and kick off the new year here.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's new year 2025. Very exciting, all new things happening. But we always like to start. Rachel, maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and how you into this crazy world of lighting design.
[00:01:04] Speaker C: It's funny because before we started recording, we were talking about home remodels as Avi's got some projects going on. That's actually kind of where my interest started. My family moved a lot when I was a kid, like an average of every 18 months. And a lot of the time my family would build a new house and nothing custom, nothing super fancy, but yet I was super into that whole concept of like the building it and being able to make it yours and select your finishes and that entire process. And so I wanted to study architecture. My dad, who's an engineer, wanted me to study engineering. So thus comes the hybrid of that. And I went into architectural engineering at the University of Colorado and was fortunate to be under the program in the David DeLaura and Bob Davis era. And that's what kind of sucked me in. In all honesty, it was probably Bob Davis and really starting to get into the idea of lighting as design. And for me, it was kind of that good blend of, okay, I can still rely on the math and the science and the numbers. There's not really a right or a wrong answer. There's just different viewpoints, different perspectives, different desires and aesthetics. That's what got me and fell into it from there. Had a couple of great internships and interesting fun fact. I have actually only ever had one job in my initial job that I took out of college. I've been here 21 years. The job has changed a lot on me. It was not Stantec when I took the job. We were acquired by Stantec in 2017. And it has obviously evolved and morphed and changed over those 20 some years. But I really enjoy the work, the industry, the people. And obviously I'm a lighting geek through and through and that's where I'll stay.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: That's something about lighting. It's. It's always changing. So you can stay in one place and still feel like things are changing and you're growing and learning. I don't know.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Yeah, and that's the thing. It's between the organization and kind of the company side of things, things are always evolving and changing and growing. And so that's an avenue that's very fulfilling just from a standpoint of there's always new things to learn, new things to do, different things to grow into. But then also from the lighting industry, you know, it's never stagnant. And it's funny because I always tell people it's like comparing iPhones or televisions. If you're going to go shopping for a new tv, it's like you don't want to buy the model from two years ago. That's like ancient history and TV and iPhone technology. And I feel like the same is true in lighting. Everything changes so quickly that just because it was our go to, or the design solution or the technology two years ago, three years ago, six months ago, doesn't mean that that's our same kit of parts that we want to design with today. It's constantly evolving and that's part of what keeps it interesting.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: And the projects too, right? Like two community centers or two airports or to, you name it, are never the same. Different architects, different clients, different times of year. You're design just everything changes about them.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: Yes, the clients are all different, the projects are all unique. And you know, part of what I enjoy too is you can learn so quickly. You know, we do a lot of tenant interior workplace work where you can try something new, design it, and in six months it's done and you can be like, okay, well that was great. Ish. But now we can, you know, we can try something different and learn from that and continue to evolve. So yeah, it's. Are there monotonous aspects to any job? For sure. But at the same time it's. I think that's part of what I've always enjoyed about it is the projects are different, the schedules are different, the people you're working with are different. And it just, there's always variables and new and different to have to learn and adapt to and work through which it'd be boring if it was all same same every day.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Right? For sure. I'm a person who likes change. I know not everyone likes Change. Maybe most people don't, but I get excited about doing, learning something, like you said.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: I think it depends on the change, though, because, Rachel, as you were talking, I was thinking about how even, like, the same production, right. In the theatrical sense, you see Oklahoma. The first time, and then you go see it another time. It's gonna be different actors, different lighting, different sets. But I did see a rendition of Oklahoma. That was touring that was so weird and so off base that I, like, didn't like that change. Cause I was a little. I'm a little bit more of a traditionalist when to that musical. But, you know, the change is good, I think within, like, reason. I guess it depends on the situation.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: I was actually gonna bring in the theatrical concept, too, because, Rachel, you said Tenant Fita work is relatively quick. And you get to see what you've done, whether it was good or bad. Hopefully good. I always admire folks who work in the theatrical world where you get that instant feedback. You get to see immediately what you've done and whether it's good or bad. And in architectural, we're waiting at least months, weeks, and at most. Sometimes it's years. You know, you get on some of these bridges or streetscapes or large projects that are in design for two to three years and then in construction for five to seven, and you don't get.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: That instant feedback, which maybe is a good thing. I don't know. Instant feedback can be good, but it can also be a bit much sometimes.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Say more about that.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: It's great to have instant feedback, but I don't know, to some degree, I also, like, need to ruminate on things and, like, let things sink in. And I don't know if I had too much instant feedback. It might just put me in a tailspin.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I can see that. Like, you need. You need that time for it to bake in. Sometimes I feel like even when you're really pushing the envelope too, it's like, yeah, I gotta sleep on that one for like, a day or two. Yes.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: Very emotional.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: And maybe sometimes some of those emails you have to send. You gotta, like, write it and then put it to the side. Let that marinate a bit too. Before we've all had a few of those.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: It's always good to have somebody else read those, isn't it?
[00:07:06] Speaker C: Yes. Or I've also been using the Goto AI Chatbot these days of, like, putting in my opinion and then being like, can you make this sound nice and put a positive spin on it, please?
[00:07:17] Speaker B: I definitely done that.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: And you have to say please. I've really found that, like, you really have to be nice to the AI Chatbot.
[00:07:27] Speaker C: I don't know why. Maybe it's just completely ingrained in me. But yes, I. I'm very much a pleasant thank you to my chatbot. You.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: You need to. It'll do better for you, man. I. I was a little embarrassed the time that the chatbot said something to me like, you know, good luck on your presentation or whatever it was that I. I was like, oh, that made me feel good. And then I was like, wait a minute, what the heck?
[00:07:49] Speaker C: Validation from a computer.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: It's embarrassing.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: Yet the world we live in, I can relate.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Well, one of the things that we are talking a lot about on the Lighting Matters podcast is those opportunities, those chances, those times where you're working with a client and they have that aha. Moment of, wow, where have you been? And why am I just learning about you or this profession? However story you have, I'm sure, Rachel, you have a couple of really great stories to share in those situations.
[00:08:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I think most of us as lighting designers have at least a few of those experiences. The first one that comes to mind when you ask that question is I had a relatively small tenant finish project probably a decade ago and worked really closely with the interior design team, and they had a lot of trust in us as lighting designers and that we knew what we were doing as far as designing to a budget and being aware that this was a fairly modest project. And I think we did a pretty good design on it from a standpoint of adding visual interest and having some nice aesthetics, yet being really budget aware, yet the contractor gets the pricing back, and they're like, oh, this lighting package is six figures and, like, way too high, and we're going to sub it all with a VE package. And thankfully, the interior design principal was a good advocate of our lighting design team and immediately said, nope, called us into the table, and we were like, no, here's all the unit pricing. We're very cautious with how we designed this project. Here's the unit pricing we pulled together, and essentially the budget that we added up should have been a third of what the contractor had. And we provided all that information, passed it all on, and the contractor's jaw just dropped. They were like, you know, that's not what we were told. And we're going to go do some research. And they came back and they were more or less like, you're right. And we were. We were kind of trying to pull something over and getting, you know, Getting a fishy story in the background and. But that was my first time working with that contractor and that's since been a contractor that I've done numerous projects with. And it was kind of just game changing from a standpoint of not only the value add of having good lighting on a project, but of building the relationship and the trust of we're not trying to over design and give you some Ferrari when what you need is a functional Ford and building that trust of we know what we're doing, we know how to price the market, we know how to design to a budget and we can still get you a really good result. And the interesting part to me about all this was that was a relationship with a contractor from a standpoint of the client wasn't even involved in half of what was going on and knew all the detail of that, but at the end of the day the client was thrilled, had a great job, that looked like a much higher budget project than it was. But it was just the. They're really trying to just break down some of those barriers that we deal with in pricing transparency. And also I think sometimes there's that connotation that oh, you have a lighting designer on a project, it must be like really fancy and have this really big budget or lighting designers have a big ego and they're designing something way more than you need. And it was really just trying to break down all of that with no, we're just trying to provide good solutions at a good cost that are in the best interest of our client. And here's the evidence to how you can help make that happen as a contractor in procurement.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: It's fascinating that it didn't become combative with the contractor that they actually came back to you and said, okay, you're right, those prices are right.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: I know, when do we hear that right? I'd say it was a general contractor in our local market that was kind of stepping into the larger, higher end, class A type work to where they didn't have necessarily really solid relationships with their subs and they were valuing their clients from a standpoint of they wanted to do a great job on the project. And they were listening to some of the experts being, you know, our interior design team and things that have done this in the industry in the market for decades. And so they really came with open ears from a standpoint of willing to look at the information and willing to question things and push back on their sub and get to the answers. Whereas that's definitely not what we always see.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Well, I find it so interesting that your favorite story is aligned with budget transparency because it is amazing in all the episodes that Lisa and I have recorded in the last six months is that it just is a constant element that comes up in conversation. And I don't think anyone said it as, as well as you have, Rachel, which is, you know, we're advocates for design and in the end we're just trying to get the client what they want. You said it better than I did. And I think people don't understand where a lighting designer sits in the relationship of how light fixtures get on a job, get delivered, get purchased. That whole mess that is getting a light fixture to a job site. And I that we just need to share that more and explain it and be transparent.
[00:13:06] Speaker C: Yeah, it's something that we do far more of it than I wish we did. But we practically have budget spreadsheets on every project we design and we pull DN cost numbers from our reps and manufacturers and look at those distributor net numbers so that we can kind of keep track of apples to apples. But I feel like for better or worse, it's part of our job so that we can make sure that we're doing the best we can to try and be true to our client and what their needs are and fight for that transparency. Sometimes it goes really well in terms of sometimes we're able to pull that data together and come to the table and have a really productive conversation with contractors of here's the unit prices and yeah, you can give me an alternate package, but why am I now going to pay 250 for a downlight when I have one that's spec'd for 195? Why, where's the advantage in that to my client to buy a higher priced item just because now you've put a package on it. So we have a lot of those conversations and at the end of the day, what I advocate for and what I try and talk with my team about is our job is to the client at the end of the day and whatever the best product is at the best price to meet their needs. And it shouldn't be that hard, but it is.
It's messy and it's complicated and it's political and all these other things. But that's kind of been the approach I've taken my whole career is yeah, if I have to pull the numbers together to be able to substantiate both to the client that hey, I feel like I did my job, I designed to a budget and judiciously and with your best interest in mind. And, you know, yeah, there's times where we accept packages and alternates and. But we also then advocate for where's the money back, how much money's going back to the client. And you know, we don't just say, okay, you gave us a ve package, we'll accept it. And end of story. We still poke and prod and have those questions of, we still want to see the line item pricing, we want to see what's the total value saved and how's that getting returned back to the client. And it's a lot more time, it's a lot more work. But I do think out of that, we've had a good number of clients who really appreciate it and they're happy with what they get at the end of the day. And in some of those cases, they're repeat clients that come back to us because they know that we're not just designing for the sake of design. We're truly trying to keep their best interest in mind. And that's not always the case in, in the construction industry at large.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Right. That's, that's the value of them hiring a lighting designer, paying for a lighting designer is that we are advocating for them. That's, that's part of, part of our value. I was just thinking about 20 years ago, a lot of the advocacy was just to have a lighting designer on the project at all. So now we're, we're making progress, we're on slowly but surely, and now we're just advocating for pricing, transparency and advocating for our clients. I mean, we'll always do that in some way.
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah, well, and it's interesting, I was talking with, you know, a peer locally here in my market the other day and just reflecting back on how much just within my region, the lighting industry has changed over the course of my career. You know, when I started, there were a handful of us in DLF back in the day, Designers Lighting Forum, and there were a handful of us, and most of them were people sitting in an engineer's office doing lighting as an engineer. And it's just amazing to have seen how much the industry has changed. We used to have regional events with 10, 15 people, and now I go to these regional events with 60, 80 people. And I walk in and I don't even know who half the people are. Whereas I feel like I used to know everybody in this small little industry regionally in my area. But it's an awesome thing. And I'm very much that believer of like, the rising tides lifts all Boats. I think a victory for any of us is a victory for all of us from a standpoint of. To see us growing, to see. You know, there was just a comment the other day that there's another firm now here in my regional market, and somebody was like, oh, more competition. And I'm like, no, this is a really awesome thing because it's. It's a growth of our industry, and there's more competition because there's more projects to be had. There's more work to be had. We're getting more recognition. We're growing as an industry. And, like, that's awesome. Yeah. Does it maybe mean there's more competition on projects? Sure. But we'll probably all get our fair share. And overall, everything's growing, and that's an awesome, exciting thing for our industry.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: It's amazing that as an industry, I'm happy if one of my competitors gets the job. Right. As long as there's a lighting designer on the job, it's a win if it happens to be, you know, the rep gets it because they did it for free versus everybody else bidding it for something. You know, that's unfortunate. There's a big project that happened in Chicago a few years ago. The engineering firm got it for free because they were doing everything else. I mean, they bid it to seven lighting design firms and the engineering firm. The engineering firm did all the paperwork for the bid, but the dollar value was zero because they were doing the mep, fp, sustainability, everything else other than lighting. And so they just.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: That undermines the whole industry, Right, Exactly. And so we're not worth anything.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Apparently, according to this engineering firm, their lighting design services were not valuable. But again, like, it comes back to a friendly competition. Right. The friendliness of, hey, can we team up? Or can, you know, did you get it? And what happened? And it's a friendly group. I think that's a little bit different than the other parts of the construction industry. I don't see that as much between architecture firms or engineering firms or even contractors.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Very much so. And it was fairly fascinating because have been teaching a university course the past couple of years and largely architectural students. And in talking with them, and, you know, I would bring guest lecturers into class a lot, and sometimes it would be a panel group of different peers in industry. And so it would essentially be my competition, my competitors at different firms. And we'd get together and have kind of a panel discussion with the students. And one of the students had that as a takeaway. They were kind of like, this is Amazing. They're like, it seems like you're all friends, but your competitors. Like, they were trying to digest the fact that, like, we had really good camaraderie, and we know each other really well, and we know each other's businesses well, yet we have respect for each other. And, you know, some of us are. Have kids around the same age, and we get our kids together. Like, you can tell that were industry friends beyond just work associates and peers. And it was just fascinating because the students were like, I don't. I don't understand that you're. That you're friends and have these relationships with competition. And it's like. But I feel like that's what our industry is. It's just like you said, Avi, it's a lot of, you know, it's a victory whether you win the job or your competition wins the job, so long as a lighting designer is winning the job. And it's just interesting because I don't think that's. I don't think that's typical for most industries. And I don't know if it's just the time and place of where we are in growth as an industry and if that'll change. Part of me hopes it doesn't change because I think it's a great thing, but it's probably just part of that growth cycle of where we are. Right.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: We're still early enough in the profession. Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:32] Speaker C: Hopefully we keep.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Keep it. I agree. It's one of my favorite things about the profession is all of you, all the people.
[00:20:38] Speaker C: It's one of the best parts of it from my standpoint, and it's actually interesting. Speaking of students, just hired a new grad who actually started yesterday, and that was one of the things he said was what really drew him to the lighting industry was the sense of community around it. He's got an architectural degree and a lighting certificate, and he could have gone to do architecture or something else, but he was like, it's the community piece of, you know, everybody kind of knows everybody and supports everybody, and there's all kinds of opportunity. And it was just, again, interesting to see someone just starting out and just moving on from college. But they can acknowledge that there's that sense of community within our industry that is unique.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: I also don't want to get too far without talking about this amazing podcast that you have going on, Rachel. Really? I've fallen kind of in love with it. I've shared it with my wife, and she has. She doesn't listen to podcasts, but she started listening to yours because I started telling her stories about some of the things you all have been talking about. And you started the podcast around the same time that that we did. And I thought it'd be, you know, great to kind of hear a little bit about why and. And where you're taking that.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: And I just have to pipe in too, because I don't listen to podcasts either. And I.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: And I love you do podcast.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: I love the Whelms podcast so.
[00:22:05] Speaker C: Well, I appreciate that. Love that feedback. I kind of have to agree. I'm right there. I'm usually not a podcast list, but it's been a really fun journey. Catherine and I started the Whelmed podcast. Yeah, the same. Like, I think we launched practically the same week you guys did and find it kind of fascinating just because at first it was like, oh, no, two. Two sets of people from lighting are doing these new podcasts. And it's like, but we're so different yet kind of complementary in terms of. It's not like we're competing in the same space. And I think it's kind of just like we were talking about with community. It's. There's space for everybody. But it's been a really fun journey and it's been interesting because I have to say, I'm typically more of, you know, a reserved person from a standpoint of I don't necessarily like to share a lot of my personal things out there in the world. And it's funny because that's like the complete opposite of what this podcast has been. It's really been about kind of work, life, balance and all that being a professional brings with it. From a standpoint of most everyone we're talking to is somehow lighting industry related because those are the professions and the people that we know. But it's not about lighting. It's about people and how do we manage the day to day? And it all kind of just started from. Catherine and I are good friends. We actually used to work together. We're both parents with kids that are about the same age. And we would find ourselves constantly sending, you know, Instagram memes back and forth to each other at like, midnight of, you know, different things. And we were both like, oh, my God, this is so relatable. And then we were kind of like, we can't be the only people having these, these meme conversations. But that then really lead to deeper conversations about, you know, the balancing, the stress of work and being able to turn it off and go home and be present with your partner and with Your family. And how do you create space for yourself and fuel. Fuel your fire so that you have energy to go back and do it again the next day? And the more we started talking about it, it was just like, more people need to talk about these things because we all have those struggles, whether you're man, woman, parent, not a parent, taking care of elderly, aging parents. You know, everybody's got the many faceted layers of life that everybody's dealing with, and I think we just don't always talk about them enough. And so it's been really fun to just kind of have that platform and have some really deep but open and earnest, fun conversations with people. And I think the most fascinating part has been some of the feedback of, you know, somebody that we didn't even know sent us a message and was like, oh, my God, I fell in love with your podcast. And the moment I realized it was when I started talking to you in the car like that. You know, they're trying to talk with us. Like, they're just part of the conversation, which was just hysterical, but also like, the best compliment.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:25:00] Speaker C: And so it's been fun. Who knows where it'll go? But we've had a really fun time just talking with different people, hearing about different people's struggles and successes and how they balance different aspects of life. And, you know, I'm. I'm admittedly one that struggles with how to say no and how to, like, create space for myself. And it's been great to have those conversations and hear what other people do or how they deal with some of those things, or we're always constantly learning and evolving, or at least that's the hope, right? And so to be able to have some of those conversations, learn from some of that insight, it's been good. It's uplifting and feels like a good sense of community.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Leisa, did you get through overwhelmed yet?
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Oh, no, I kind of put it down. I have about five books that I'm in the middle of reading, and they were all a little depressing, so I said, I gotta find a good, happy book. Oh, man, I got a book of poetry sitting here. That's like, what I went to.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: I wanted to just capture that, like, throughout your podcast, throughout the whelmed podcast, there's been lots of recommendations on books and topics and things that my Rachel. Rachel and I have. Like, not to confuse the two Rachel's, but we've instigated a lot of the things that. That you guys have talked about. Like, it's been really Great. And I have. I really loved it. And I completely agree there are things that just aren't talked about, and it's an opportunity to talk about them and get ideas. I think, you know, books like that book Overwhelmed and other podcasts, other videos, YouTube, whatever you. You go to, they're all great places to find ideas and options. And what I've been enjoying in your podcast is it's people in the same industry. Right. Talking about the same kind of stresses that we were talking about. Right. Sometimes you got to let somebody else read that email because you really just want to. I'll stop there. So I think that's been really, really one of the things I love about it.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: I appreciate that. That's great feedback. And, yeah, I think, you know, it kind of just grew organically out of our conversations. But it's been really wholesome and rewarding to have guests on and have those conversations with people that. That are vulnerable and open themselves up and have conversations that maybe they wouldn't have elsewhere. And it's great just to hear that it. That it resonates and is. Is worth something. From a standpoint of, you know, we're not doing it for anything. From a standpoint of it's not a moneymaker or anything like that. We're doing it because it's. It's fun and it's rewarding and fills our bucket in some sense.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Absolutely. Are you overwhelmed or underwhelmed at the.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: Moment, following the holiday? I'd say I'm balanced in my degree of whelm, but I think, you know, I think a lot of us often straddle that overwhelmed spot. It's a lot work and people and deadlines and budgets and financials and all the different responsibilities that come with work, and then also balancing all that comes with our home lives and trying to eat well and work out and get fresh air and vitamin D and like, all the things. And so I think I kind of generally straddle the overwhelmed aspect, but I'm also learning more and more through some of these conversations that I'm very type A and that I kind of can't sit still. And some of that's my own doing, but I think part of that's also just. It's part of what makes me tick and needing to embrace that and that there's not anything wrong with it, but also trying to make space, to make sure I do slow down and take time.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: How about you, Lisa? Overwhelmed? Whelmed, I would say.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: I'm usually overwhelmed, and I probably should be right now. If I looked at my to do list but I. Coming off the holidays and I'm rarely underwhelmed. I. I usually like to see the good like I'm. I'm excited about whatever is happening in front of me. I'm. I'm not a cynical person so I wouldn't like go say oh that was very underwhelming.
So. So yeah right now I'm. I'm feeling quite balanced. How about you?
[00:29:11] Speaker A: You may hear the construction in the background.
[00:29:15] Speaker C: I actually don't hear it but no we don't.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Extremely overwhelmed. I was very much looking forward to. So we closed for two weeks because there's nothing going on. I mean and did my own. It really love doing that. Did some computer work for the servers and things like that but all new structural in my house. That is a little overwhelming.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Overwhelming.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: I was very excited to just make my rifts on white oak vanity all winter break. Got everything sitting in the garage. Super excited. That's my escape. Little woodworking problem solving. How to get it all to put together so you don't see the nails and but yeah having to deal with a house and. And then the other side of Rachel kind of stressed on it but just the cash flow. Lisa and I talk about it a lot and I always like to repeat it when it comes up but when did this industry allow ourselves to become 0% interest free loans for million dollar developments and public municipalities?
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I did not sign up to be a bank and obviously I don't do it very well since it's at 0% unitrust.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And then I, I'm always cautious to speak of this but if, if, if some of you recall about eight years ago all light fixtures went up 30% due to a tariff that got put in place. I am very concerned for all of us talking about budgets with our clients and in what two weeks we should expect basically the same thing to happen again. And it's just adds a ton of stress because I mean Rachel you were talking about projects that have very tight budgets are now going to have a 30% problem even if it's already been ordered but it hasn't hit the dock. It's going to be a problem in that. So I'm. I'm unfortunately overwhelmed in things I can't even control.
[00:31:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: But there was a great meme that a friend of mine sent me yesterday of a guy kissing his keyboard and mouse because all the kids went back to school and the wife went back to school and that was absolutely neat me yesterday. I live in the routine of the day and three boys trying to keep them doing something for two weeks. So glad to be back at work.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: I felt for all the parents around here because the day everyone was supposed to go back, we got school closures because of weather.
Two days going now.
[00:32:01] Speaker C: We'll see.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: The road still looks white to me.
[00:32:04] Speaker C: That's so funny, because our first day back to school was today following the holiday, and we got about 4 inches of snow last night. And they sent an email that was the. Just a reminder of our inclement weather policy. And we were like, oh, no, does that mean it's happening? But thankfully, school. School's on today. Everybody went off to school.
Giant victory.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: So that meme is for you today and the meme for me yesterday is really great.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: Yeah. There's something to be said about routine. And as much as work is work, it. It is in some sense sometimes an escape. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: It's a different kind of escape. It's a different element in the day.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: It is. Because don't get me wrong, I love my family and I love my home time and all of that, but it is, it's like you kind of said, Avi, it's having the routine, it's having that expectation and to some degree getting the fulfillment out of being productive in, like, that headspace of doing work.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: And that's true for anything. But also for lighting being a space that we all love and are really passionate about it. I think we're lucky to have work that we love doing.
[00:33:12] Speaker C: Yes, very much so.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: And I think, Rachel, you were talking a little about this, but this blend of. And I hate the way to say this, and I've been challenged trying to find a better way of saying it, but the art and science of lighting design, I hate the art and science. Like, it seems so.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Like that's what it is.
[00:33:31] Speaker C: But we all say it.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: Left brain, right brain. Right, like the. The. We all can't do what we do without living in the middle of that super technical world and that creative world and everything. We do a budget to a layout is right in the middle. It's not left, it's not right. It's not art, it's not science. It's exactly in the middle. And the success comes from being in the middle and selling that middle line to all the different parties involved.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: So how else would you say it if it's not art in science?
[00:34:10] Speaker A: It has been a 15 year struggle that I have yet to resolve. It really. Because it's. I don't know, it just. Because everybody says it that way, it just kind of. It's like, oh, we're gonna go do Hanukkah. My wife says all the time. Drives me nuts. Like, no, we're gonna go light the Hanukkah candles. It's the same thing. It's like. It's just a weird, like, two words together that just trigger something. It's like red and green for me are always Christmas, and I can't because I'm Hanukkah. But I don't know the. The other way to say it. You know, I like the idea of, like, living in the middle, but in the middle of.
[00:34:46] Speaker C: No. I think that's a great way to explain it. I like that explanation. So it's funny, I just had to throw it into my little AI chat thing because I had it open in the background.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Perfect.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: And it says, the convergence of aesthetics and engineering artistry meeting precision. A harmonious balance of creativity and technical expertise.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good one.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: Fusion of artistic expression and scientific principles or the interplay of form and function.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Interplay. I think it's, like, whelmed. It needs a word.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Right? Right. It needs a marketing team to spend a whole bunch of money and come up with the word.
[00:35:22] Speaker C: Yep.
I don't disagree, but, yeah, I say that phrase a lot just because it's just like you said, we have to live in that middle and we have to tap into both sides. And I think for those of us in industry that do that, it's like our happy place. But it's interesting to think about it from a context of. That's not a lot of people's jobs. A lot of people's jobs are very much left brain or right brain, but not this really interwoven middle.
[00:35:50] Speaker A: And you think about it, obviously, I've been focusing a lot on building morelight's brand after the previous brand. And we've been talking a lot about, like, who the audience is for our services. And you think about the architecture firms, the development firms, the ownership firms. Right. They're very much people that are creatives. And then there are the project managers and the technical people. I mean, one of the. One of the firms. I like to talk a lot about that. We're working on an airport with, like, the. The leading person is the creative, and the husband who's in the firm is the technical. Right. And that's the chart. Right. Creative. Technical. Well, that's. Creatives on top. Technical. And then everybody kind of finds their place under those two things. But you look at, I'm sure, inside of Stantec and the hoks, right, the big firms, right? You have design principles and technical principles. We are a unique animal, that it is this creative and technical that has to blend and it doesn't really exist in any other part of the construction industry per se. I guess you could have arguments for other parts of it.
[00:37:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's probably arguments that could be made for it. But. But I do think it's. I do think it's a unique, a unique place that we find ourselves navigating the middle.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: Well, I feel like we've covered a lot and we're kind of at our time and I very excited to have Rachel with us today. Any closing thoughts? Lisa, are we good to wrap it up? Rachel, any closing thoughts?
[00:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I just thank you so much for joining us today, Rachel, and kicking off the year. I'm excited to have had you on the show and also just excited about what 2025 is going to bring us all.
[00:37:36] Speaker C: Yes, likewise. Thank you for inviting me to the show. It's been really fun to get to see both of you and just talk with both of you today and it's been fun conversation and as you said, I think it's, you know, it's an exciting point of the year. Just we're all entering into that overwhelmed phase. Bobby's ahead of us, but I think it's an exciting time of year when it's looking at what's to come. And some of what we talked about of our industry is constantly changing and growing and evolving, and I think that's a really awesome and exciting thing and it's cool that we're along for the ride.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: Well, thanks everybody and we'll check in again real soon.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Lighting Matters as we wrap up, we want to reiterate how much we value your time, and we hope you found it as much fun to listen to as we had creating it. Remember to like it and share this content with your friends and colleagues.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: The opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the sponsors. Our content has general applications, but we recommend obtaining personalized guidance from a professional IALD lighting designer such as RBLD or More Lights for your next endeavor.
