Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast about Lighting Matters. Our unflinching conversations uncover the nuances and complexities which shape the craft of lighting design.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: We explore the pivotal whys behind a lighting designer's choices and find honest answers to your most challenging lighting questions. Because lighting matters.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Lighting Matters podcast. I'm Avi Moore with Moore Lights and I have my beautiful and amazing co host here.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Hi everybody. I'm Lisa Reed with Reed Burkitt Lighting Design and we have a really creative episode coming your way right now.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: We both went out to Arizona and attended the I D Enlightened Americas. Make sure we add that conference in Tucson, about 45 minutes away. Pretty expensive night, but it was a Marriott hotel, so, you know, thank you for the points.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: It was a good conference too. Really good.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: It was. I think we're changing the world as I think more about the conference. I think that what we're doing here is starting to get out there.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I felt like an overall tone of the conference was this sort of positive advocacy slash making a difference in the community, either in the lighting community or making a difference in the broader community through lighting. So I was excited about the tone and the mood of the, of everyone there.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: So to that end, we got this idea to ask anybody who would take a few minutes some questions and we
[00:01:40] Speaker B: decided to ask them the same three questions. The first question was, how do you describe what you do to a non technical audience? If you're talking to your Grandma or your 5 year old, how do you tell them what you do as a lighting designer?
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Our second question was, what is the difference between a lighting designer and an electrical contractor? And this question stemmed from a webinar that came from Architectural Record with some of our friends lighting designers. And we thought, wow, what a question. An architectural magazine asking a bunch of lighting designers. So we had to put that question to this group.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: And then finally we, we asked if, you know, both of those questions are about using language to describe what we do as lighting designers. And so we asked if there could be a common language that we could all agree on as an industry to provide those definitions so then we could focus more on our own differentiators when we're talking about lighting, you know, is there some way that we can agree on common language to get the word out about what we do?
[00:02:49] Speaker A: And then we had this idea that once we had all this information that we would synthesize it. Yeah, right now we would just dump it all in a chatgpt and ask it what the answers to these three Questions were and is there a language that could be synthesized from all of these interviews?
So hang on to the end and we're going to share what it produced and talk a little bit more. But let's introduce the people we interviewed.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: The first one was Chip Israel who is a lighting designer. Amazing.
Longtime industry professional in Los Angeles.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: We interviewed Laura.
Laura is a member of our advocacy group Inside of iald.
She's based in Mexico, good friends with Thomas Patterson who's been on the podcast. She had some interesting insights which were great. We also interviewed another gentleman who is in our advocacy group, Gonzalo. Gonzalo is originally Chilean and still has his firm in Chile, but now added office in Florida. He had unique perspective because of some of the complexities he's dealing with in his market.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: The next two folks that we talked to are both from St. Louis, where I live and that was Ron Kurtz who is part of darklight, and Randy Burkett from my firm.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: And then we had Francesca join us. Bastianini.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Bastianini, yeah.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: And Francesca was a new person that I hadn't met before but really insightful and also gave a session with a number of other women business owners about starting their businesses at ialda. That's one of the great things about that conference is it's kind of running your business things as well as lighting design that I thought was really great.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: Then another iconic lighting designer, someone we all know and love. He's just the, the nicest person in the lighting industry. Steven Rosen, he's not been on the podcast before, but Derek Barnwell, one of his colleagues has.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: And then we had a repeat, I think our first repeat podcast. We had Julio Padona join us from Chicago. Again, some unique insights if you're getting a theme here. We had both theatrically trained lighting designers and technically engineering trained lighting designers and international really tried to mix it up here.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Then Aram Eben with exp. He runs a really incredible lighting group out of that really large firm. And Aram's. I don't know, I'm going to go ahead and say it. He got bitten by a scorpion at the conference and yeah, and I gave him a scorpion lollipop at the airport. So yeah, that will forever be our thing. Now that I know that's story.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: I thought you were gonna say the most fashion forward male in the lighting design.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Yeah, he was. He was also named a fellow at the of the IALD at the conference.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: So congrats to Arum and certainly not last or least Nancy Clanton out of Denver, exterior queen I. You know, like, she just. Nancy has.
Oh, my gosh.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. She knows so much.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: So, you know, a really great breath of designers with many, many years of experience tried to get as international as we could and take a listen to how they responded to the questions.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: How do you explain what you do lighting design to say your grandma, a kid, someone who's not technical?
[00:06:56] Speaker C: The easiest analogy that I use is I paint with light is what I tell my family.
So in a space, literally, I'm painting walls, painting floors, painting ceilings with light. And I say to them, if you were to walk into a room and you turn all the lights off, can you see anything?
Obviously, their answer is no. And then I say, I start painting that room with where I want them to look, literally with the light, the color of the light, the texture of the light. And then it gets. And then their eyes roll back and they're like, okay, we're done, Aaron. But that's basically it. I think of myself as a painter.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I tell them, look, dad is a lighting designer. I play with lights, okay? So every time you see a light fixture, you got to think of dad, okay?
You know? Because you will know, okay? When there is not a lighting designer, when you're in the dark, okay. Or when you have discomfort, glare, okay? Because my kids sometimes complain, dad, that light is in my face.
I say, they didn't hire a lighting designer, you know, so that's probably the simple way to explain it to them. I've always thought about what I do as using both sides of my brain.
[00:08:06] Speaker D: I wouldn't use that as describing it
[00:08:07] Speaker A: to someone I'm talking to.
Lighting design is both science and art, and the synergy of those two things
[00:08:20] Speaker D: is where we are and where we should be.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: So I think there's.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: If I was to explain to someone what it is we do is we,
[00:08:32] Speaker D: like, we bring those components of light and technology, of light together in order
[00:08:38] Speaker A: to come up with a common, effective
[00:08:41] Speaker D: solution, both architecturally or aesthetically and technically.
[00:08:47] Speaker E: Well, normally I first have to smile and nod when they say, oh, my God, the lighting is so important.
And then I say, yeah, yeah, it is.
And the general response is like, well, you know, I used to do theatrical lighting, and that was where you do live entertainment. And you. You know what that looks like. I now do it where all the lighting is permanent, whether it's interior or exterior, anything that you see around you. I'm working on it.
[00:09:16] Speaker D: I would say.
When I first got to know Gustavo Aviles, a Mexican lighting designer, I learned that Mexican lighting designers refer to themselves or the language they use is that they are lighting architects.
And I always really loved that, you know, because when everybody asks you about what you do, they immediately think you either sell light bulbs, you make light fixtures.
The last thing they think about is orchestration of other people's products and services into some sort of a symphony. And so that, that really tells the story. It's, you know, we are, and I often say it's, it's white collar work that, you know, where you're designing and administrating. So I would say lighting architects is a great example.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: I tried to describe it to him and said, you know what an architect does?
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: And they're like, yeah, yeah, they design.
[00:10:10] Speaker C: And I'm like, it's the same thing. I just put, I figure out what light has to go where and I put it on a piece of paper and somebody builds it for me, probably my mom.
[00:10:21] Speaker F: I usually tell her, like, oh, it's like interior design, but with lighting and also for exterior spaces.
And my dad, he's more like an engineer who doesn't care about aesthetics. So I tell him, like, well, I basically, you know, improve people's lives, sleep and wellness with light, you know, contributing to the space.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: What is the difference between a lighting designer and an electrical contractor?
[00:10:53] Speaker G: The electrical contractor just knows how to go to the hardware store, buy lights and put them up. As I connect everything together and I'm going, what a light designer does is we create spaces, we light surfaces.
We don't pound light down in your face.
I don't do down bites because what a waste of light.
Electrical contractors just even lighting, put it everywhere, drive the foot candles, I'm set.
And they don't understand the art of the lighting.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: The electrical contractor is here to go ahead and install whatever lighting design or whatever lighting equipment has been specified for this project.
That contractor is responsible for installing it, powering it, controlling it in the way that the specification was written. I'm responsible for putting that specification together to match the project needs.
[00:11:58] Speaker E: We have vastly different roles, but like the intention is, I'm here to make your work look good. I'm here to collaborate with you to make a space feel great, to make your vision sing, and also to make sure that our clients, which is who we are designing for, the end user, their lives better.
[00:12:20] Speaker H: Even with the development of what we do and our professional, we still run into our colleague professionals, architects and interior designers that they don't really know well
[00:12:32] Speaker A: what we do and what we can bring to the table for Them as a team.
[00:12:37] Speaker H: So basically we take care of bringing their architectural expression and interior design, expressions
[00:12:46] Speaker A: and ideas and intent to light.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Why should the client hire you as the architect when they can essentially get that design out of a book or out of some online software that's AI, Whether it be for house or whatever. Why should they hire you, Mr. Architect New York? They thought I'm the one with the expertise, right. I'm the one who understands the codes, understands the form, how to tell the story of whatever that building is in the structure. And I say we're the exact same way. A contractor is not necessarily going to be able to articulate that.
They're sure they can give them a functional design, gets put candles on the floor. But is it right? Does it really tell the story? Does it meet the intent or meet the needs of that client?
Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a rep is going to step in and try and help.
There's all kinds of issues to that too.
The point being is that at the end of the day, we're the experts in this. This is what we do day in and day out.
[00:13:45] Speaker H: I think it's pretty simple to us. We're the, the chefs. We take the lighting requirements and we blend them into a beautiful application as opposed to maybe the electrical engineer that's maybe more. More of the cook. They're going to make something that's maybe not nutritious. Well, it's probably nutritious, but maybe it doesn't taste that good or doesn't look that great compared to the electrical contractor, which is the person that takes a plan and in their defense, it's just a bunch of dots and has to implement it into the space.
So I think the real key is to get the electrical contractors to see our visions.
Sometimes it's simply sharing a rendering so they understand what the lighting is trying to highlight.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Do you believe that it is possible to create a language that we can use as lighting designers to then describe the profession of lighting design separate from the uniques of each of our individual firms?
[00:14:47] Speaker F: Yeah, I think there is like, you know, a guiding theme here that it's all about people wellness, the experience, you know, it's about humans.
So I mean, it can be depending on the space or the type of space and interest of the. Of the person, we can then go deeper. But in general, I think it's that it's about health, about making people happier, healthier, enjoying connecting with the places they live, their. They work.
[00:15:18] Speaker G: We can design and talk about visual experience, visual beauty of a space, not running it down with light levels, all that stuff. Yes, it is. How do you explain the beauty of a space?
And to me, if you walk in a space and you don't see a light at all, but you see the beauty. Like the old cathedrals with the daylighting coming in and all of this with the up lighting from candles, that to me is beauty.
And that's what I think light designers need to do is to go back in history before there was electric light and talk about the beauty of the light. Have you ever seen a candle in a down light candle in.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:16:17] Speaker G: You know, it's like. But yet the glow, the beauty, no glare.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:22] Speaker G: And that's what I think light designers need to do is about the experience.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:28] Speaker E: I think that we have a lot of discussions about the language that we use use already in our standards, in our organizations.
We talk about the same terms for different things. Absolutely. We could develop those. I, you know, I'm a, an owner, I'm a lighting designer and I'm also an educator. And so a lot of my job is understanding that what we say and what we show matches and that we start to make sure our language, our language around what use think is a bright, cozy light is the same thing or whatever. What your language is around lighting is the same as mine. And so I think there's always going to be subjectivity, but we can start to get closer and at least have a reference and say, you know, this is one place to start, but here are the other ways that we also do this and here is how we can expand it further. But common resources are not going to hurt us. I think they're only going to be able to be a helping reference point.
[00:17:31] Speaker H: Yeah, I think we have to have a common vocabulary with the entire design community.
So whether or not it's individual firms and we all have specialty types of practices, but they have to know that we're a design service organization.
But what our real goal is to make the spaces to look better visually. So that's where with an interior designer to express maybe their materials to highlight the architectural features, but to make it better spaces for the occupants or the inhabitants. So whether it's the health well being factors, whatever those things may be, and we have to get that message out and get it adopted by those other communities.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: There are so many different sides to our profession, as you mentioned. There are folks that are definitely on the engineering side and they tend to speak about it more from a scientific perspective. And then there's those that are very much on the artistic side. And so the interesting thing about our profession is that there's this big, broad range, but that's also the great thing about our profession, is that it allows that language to be in this big, broad range. And really, I think maybe that speaks to who we are as lighting designers. And really, having one foot firmly stuck on the left hemisphere of your brain and one firmly in the right hemisphere of your brain, if we can somehow find that language that balances both two halves of the same coin, really, we're the science and the art together.
[00:18:52] Speaker D: A lot of lighting designers say they are storytellers, that they are telling a story with light. And I prefer to think of it as we are supporters of the story, that the architect and the owner, it's their story. It's not our story. So how can we support that in a way that enhances what their mission and vision? I became a lighting designer. I think other people became lighting designers because they are terrified of a blank sheet of paper.
I am not a visionary artist.
I am an artist, but I support the grand scheme. Lighting designers do.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: The architecture gets you started.
[00:19:31] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: And then you go.
[00:19:32] Speaker D: They give you the idea, and then you can go, oh, my gosh. If you want to do that, then we could do this and. And think about. That'll affect the environment that you're creating.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And even you can assist in tweaking the story.
[00:19:43] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. There's the initial.
I guess I go back to the theatrical idea. Right. There's a script. Yep. The director veers the scripts in different
[00:19:55] Speaker D: ways, all very similar.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: And then there's lighting elements and costume elements and set elements that veer the story other ways, too.
[00:20:03] Speaker D: But all in support of the main vision.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: The main vision.
[00:20:06] Speaker D: Right now, do I have a better idea for the main vision? I might. And if I think it's important enough, I might try to sneak it in a little bit. But I love helping other people tell their story.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Okay. There are some just really brilliant people in the lighting world, and I loved the. Those answers. I think that was so fun. All of those conversations were incredible. I loved how some people can just make it very simple and other people talk in paragraphs. I just loved it all.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: So for those of you actually watching on the screen, you'll be able to see the responses that ChatGPT gave us. So this is what we did. We converted the audio into a transcript, we uploaded the transcripts, and then we asked it to summarize the responses from each of the designers to each question and what you're Seeing on the screen here is, is the first summary and then we have a summation at the end. So how do you describe what you do as a lighting designer? Core theme. Lighting designers translate emotion, purpose and spatial storytelling into light.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty good.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Emotion, purpose and spatial storytelling.
I was surprised looking through this it talks about. Designers repeatedly emphasized the experiential nature of their work. They avoid jargon, instead using metaphors of art and everyday experience. I thought that was good and true. I paint with light. I think Julio said that. But I was surprised it didn't mention being a lighting architect because I know more than one person said that too.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I am surprised that it missed on that. But it begs that this idea of metaphors and getting more metaphors and helping the community to have some easy metaphors you can go to. I'm sure I've used this one in the past, but this project we were doing for a vacuum company or is like, you know, Dyson is to Hoover, which is Erco is to light a Lear. You know, that's how old this job is. But you know, like, you know, some kind of metaphors that we can help the industry with.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Right. And it's so that we don't all have to think of them, we don't all have to invent the metaphor, but we can put them out there. Here's a good one you can use.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: And I, I also liked this suggestion there of asking a question to engage people, the listeners. It's not something I'm good at. If I'm asked a question, I tend to just give the answer. But I like the idea of turning it around and asking it back to them as a question. Getting them to think about it.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's kind of the, the way to get what they want out of the question that they're asking you. Right.
And then it came up with the summary insight. Lighting designers are storytellers who shape perception to a non technical audience. They are artists of atmosphere, using light to create emotion, beauty and function, turning invisible intent into visible experience.
I kind of like that invisible intent to visible experience. But I don't know, it feels a little flaky.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: That's what I was going to say.
It sounds like the assimilation of a bunch of lighting designers talking about themselves because we think we're amazing and we think what we do is amazing
[00:23:39] Speaker A: with a little bit of hallucinating. I think in this too it could be.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Is that the lighting designers or the AI?
[00:23:47] Speaker A: It might be both.
I mean, some of the interviews were late in the day after lots of discussions. So, you know, question number two.
What is the difference between a lighting designer and electrical contractor?
[00:24:04] Speaker B: It's such a weird question.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Yeah. But the difference lies between artistic vision and technical implementation. That feels dead on.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I like it. It's not. I wouldn't want to insult someone with an answer to this because electrical contractors are amazing and they do amazing work. So I like the technical implementation as a description of what they do.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's very creative in certain aspects too. I mean, have you seen those like half inch conduits, Perfect sweeping bends Exactly. Perfectly spaced next to each other, four stacks high, like.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's a craft. That's a. That's a. Yeah. That's beautiful work.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: My favorite part that came out of these answers is just like, there needs to be more communication between the lighting designers and the electrical contractors because if they can catch the vision of what it is that we're trying to do, they can implement it better and take more pride in the work.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause I don't think we asked it what the answer to the question was as opposed to, like what came out of it. But that is a really good point that I feel like could get lost.
Is that. Yeah, like, how do we as an industry better inform the construct, our construction partners as to the end goals and why the decisions were made. They may not want to hear it, but give them those opportunities so they understand why. Why it's this way.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: And then our last question, which I think was kind of going to be this anyway.
Can there be a shared global language to describe lighting design? And yes, but it is a challenge. And even ChatGPT came up with this, you know, balancing art, science and humanity. The common thing. I believe a little bit came out here too, which is like, everybody knows that an architect does. Could we be lighting architects? Could we describe ourselves as lighting architects?
[00:26:17] Speaker B: I mean, it's important to note that it was a near universal consensus, but not everyone said that we could or should use universal language. But consensus that we must sell our story better, Whatever that means.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah. A global professional language is possible if it embraces the duality of lighting design. A discipline where science meets emotion and technology meets storytelling. The goal is not rigid definition, but shared understanding.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that was key too. I think even the people who said no ultimately came around too. Well. Yes.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, I mean, that almost leads us to. So we asked ChatGPT. Okay, well, synthesize it so it came up with a definition. Lighting design is the art and Science of shaping human experience through light. A lighting designer orchestrates how light reveals form, defines space, influences mood and supports function. Integrating technology and artistry into. To create meaningful environments. So that's the definition they came up with.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: So we were talking about that definition, Avi and that. That may not resonate with all. Oh, was that here the communicative phrase.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: So just to. For those who are not online and just listening. So it came up with some core principles. Human centered, collaborative, integrative. That's an interesting word.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Light is treated as a material within architecture, not an afterthought. Okay.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say integrated, but anyway.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Yes, there's a, there's a hallucination number two.
Balanced, contextual and sustainable. It also suggested some shared vocabulary. Light as a material. Storytelling through light Perception over product. Again, I feel like that it's missing something. Success is measured how people feel and see, not by fixture count. Yes, but there's something there.
Crafted atmosphere and informed by science, driven by art.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: Did you like that one? I know you're always looking for this art and science thing that you don't like. You don't like that combination of words, right?
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I've kind of inside of morelights said it creative and technical.
Because I feel like art has this expense. The word art has expense tied to it.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: You think of Monet versus creative.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: Like sometimes we have to get creative on the projects that don't have a big budget.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And science again, has this like math driven element to it versus technical, which is math and science and wires and wattage and conduit and, you know, everything else associated with it. So. And full disclosure, like that was me spending about half an hour chatgpt. Like not art and science, like what could it be? And just iterating and iterating and iterating and building. And so I think the community would have to come together to decide on the right language. Personally, I've, I've gone that route. But art and science is what a lot of people use. And I don't, I don't want to be the one that says no, we shouldn't use it. You know, if that's what we all agree to, then fine.
And then I'll use my unique versions of it, you know, and that. And that's fine. Like that's the goal here. Right. And it's not like this shall be the way.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah. We just want people to understand without us telling them what we do.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Or because they've heard it so much that they understand.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: So all right, so this first one, Right. Came to. When explaining lighting design to clients or the public. Designers should unify around this language. We design how light makes you feel in a space where it focuses your attention, how it connects you to others, and how it reveals beauty. Lighting design is about emotion, perception and purpose, not just fixtures or watts.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: I thought that was beautiful. And then you made a really good point.
I'm not always our audience.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So the point that I made prior to us recording today was, well, what about the school board? What about the residential high rise developer? What about the hotel developer? The one that's, like, worried about the costs? Not so much. The one that's worried about the design.
I feel like that's a little hoity toity and it really makes me think even more so. Which we've talked a little bit in our advocacy committee, how you talk about it, and there's a few people who actually said it a few minutes ago in this recording. It depends on who you're talking to.
And back to your previous point, like asking them questions as to why they're asking about what you do. Right. Like, what is their core challenge, what is their core problem? And then I'm going to throw out one more thing and then I'll stop. I think it also depends on where you are in the world.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:31:33] Speaker A: That will make this different as well.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: It seems like there's something that's possible, though. It really does. That seems like there's some versions of language that we can develop.
And I don't think we'll find the I'm loving it of lighting design or the just do it of lighting design.
But if we can get close and have, you know, and maybe this phrase is right with a additional sentence based on the person you're talking to, it might be.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: So when we solve this, you're going to hear about it on the Lighting Matters podcast.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: I'm excited for what we have planned with Lighting Matters. I hope everybody will come along on the ride and let's see if we can find an answer. Let's see if we can get a group of people to agree.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: Sounds amazing. Thanks for listening, everyone.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Thanks, everybody.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Lighting Matters. As we wrap up, we want to reiterate how much we value your time and we hope you found it as much fun to listen to as we had creating it. Remember to like it and share this content with your friends and colleagues.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: The opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the sponsors. Our content has general application, but we recommend obtaining personalized guidance from a professional IALD lighting designer such as RBLD or More Lights for your next endeavor.
