Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast about Lighting matters. Our unflinching conversations uncover the nuances and complexities which shape the craft of lighting design.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: We explore the pivotal whys behind a lighting designer's choices and find honest answers to your most challenging lighting questions. Because lighting matters.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Lighting Matters podcast.
I am one of your hosts, Avraham Moore with moorelights, and I have the pleasure of introducing my Lovely co host, Ms. Lisa Reed.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Hello, I'm Lisa Reed with Reed Burkitt Lighting Design.
I'm based in St. Louis, and we dodged the snow today.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: You dodged the snow?
[00:00:52] Speaker B: I heard Chicago didn't.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, that rain and snow and then freezing. Yeah, that was fun. And I guess Wisconsin's buried under a bunch of ice and snow. I was talking to some people this morning up there, so.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that doesn't make our podcast very timeless.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: No.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: For those listening in August. Yeah.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: March, snow in the Midwest.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Today, it's news. It's what we're talking about.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
So we're. We're doing a Lisa and Avi episode. Very exciting. And we're going to do a few more of these this year. This season.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we. We talk a lot in between shows and, you know, really we should just record that because that's where all the good stuff happens. But too bad you had to be there. So we'll try to give you a little, little peek behind the curtain today. I think we should talk a little bit about what's coming because we have some good interviews lined up for this year and I'm excited about. About some of what we're doing, and
[00:01:54] Speaker A: we should probably plug at this point, too, that, you know, if you'd like to be on the podcast, reach out to either Lisa or. And we'll have a conversation and see how it works in the schedule going forward.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: We've kind of started shifting the conversation a little bit outward to, you know, how do we talk to people who aren't in lighting about lighting? And so we'd like to keep it on topics like that for the most part. But there's flexibility.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: We are maintaining the current thought process, which is this idea that lighting matters, and how do we get that idea out into the world beyond ourselves? So we're just talking about how the snow is the weather right now. But I also want to click on this amazing news piece post on LinkedIn by the illuminating Engineering Society, this partnership now with by Design tv. It's called. What is it called again, Lisa?
[00:02:54] Speaker B: The show is America by Design. Mike Chapman is The executive producer. And they've been doing this show for a while in partnership with a lot of the AIAs around the country.
But now they've partnered with IES to cover lighting design.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: And it's so amazing. I remember you and I sitting next to each other at Design Night in Chicago, and Mike presented and talked about his partnership with AIA Chicago, and you and I were like, wow, we gotta connect with him and, and get something going. And we're very fortunate that many of people that we know got had the energy to follow up with Mike and make it happen. But wow, elevating lighting design. This is so exciting. I saw that news. I was just so excited. So happy for ies, so happy for all the people who made that happen. I couldn't be happier. Like, it's so excited.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: It's exactly what we've been promoting. And that also makes me think of somebody else who's just become a big promoter of lighting matters.
Dawn Brown has been out there at conferences on LinkedIn all over Canada, telling everybody, lighting matters, Lighting matters. This is another sort of continuation of this effort to get the word out about lighting and why it's important.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: And we're going to have Don on the podcast in a few weeks here in an episode or two away, depending on when that's all scheduled and gets edited.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: We also have a guest from here in St. Louis coming on. Ron Unterreiner, who has just been a, for a long time promoter of minorities and women in design and construction. But one of his issues that he gets most fired up about is the money and the funding that it takes for a small business to get started and how long we have to carry the cost of doing the work before we get paid in this industry. And so he has a lot of pet projects around that. It'll be really great to talk to him.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't wait to have that conversation because 0% interest free loans. I'm 47 as of this recording. I don't understand how this industry got to this point. I don't get it. My credit cards are 33 and a half percent interest. A line of credit, seven and a half right now. And then we have Jen park. She's a principal, a Park Fowler here in Chicago. And she just has an amazing atmosphere. She's a instructor at iit.
I think it'll be a really great conversation to learn a little bit about what's going on at IIT and the education of architects, but also the type of work that she does and you know, how she Explains lighting design to her clientele. So I think that'll be a great conversation as well.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: And more conferences and just a lot of surprises coming along through this year.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I'm really excited. I really enjoy our conversations, Lisa. And having more of these conversations recorded and out there into the audience I think will be really great.
And just extending off of previous conversations. I don't think you can get enough in the world about pricing and some of that. So I think it'll be, it'll be a fun year for sure.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: So what do you want to talk about today?
[00:06:18] Speaker A: I had my first flight cancellation ever in my life on Friday. But when I got back, my wife and I went to a PTA event at a hotel just down the street here. For those who don't know, I live on the North Shore in Chicago. It's a little bit nicer I guess. And there's a hotel over here. Let's leave the hotel brand out of the discussion.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: But there's incriminate them.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: We don't want to incriminate them as part of this. But you know, those who live in this area will know the hotel. So c' est la vie. But they have a ballroom on the top floor of the building. Three sided glass, very nice. I mean it's been there pretty much as long as I know and I've lived in this area. So we went up there, walk into the ballroom for the dinner and it's gotta be 20 foot candles with tiki, you know, candles on the table. And DJs got his thing going around, you know, classic DJ lighting. And of course in all style they have up lights everywhere. You can't really see any of that because it's brighter than bright. So you know, true lighting designer style. Go up to the bartender, hey, this is crazy bright. Like are you guys going to go to a dinner mode or something like that said? Well, I don't really know how to control all the lights. It's like there's 14 wall box dimmers right behind you. Can you like lower them? She goes to lower them all. Nothing changes. It's still 20 foot candles in this space.
So apparently this gets around. I find the person involved and they decide to turn to dim it further by turning all the lights off.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: So they turn them off.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: They turn them off.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: You still have your up lights, your candles, everything like candles.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: It's a little too dark, you know, to, to have dinner. Yeah, but it works except that there's no light for the podium to do the auction where everybody has paddles.
So then they turn all the lights back on.
Anyway, this is going on for too long and any lighting person knows where this is all going. But I turned to my wife and I said, this is the problem.
This is acceptable to people. I mean, high end weddings. And honestly, another feature of this hotel is they do have a kosher kitchen.
So, you know, you can have some, you know, and you don't have that in a lot of hotels, but this is acceptable. And we were talking about it on our team meeting at Morelights this morning and Sean Murphy said it the best. He said lighting is perceived as a luxury.
How do we change that perception?
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. I mean, it sounds like you're at a luxury hotel and it wasn't even appropriately illuminated. We've talked from time to time about some kind of licensure or certification.
I think if people don't know what they need to be protected from, then somebody has to protect them from themselves. People don't understand architecture, people don't understand structural engineering, but we know those things are important, or at least someone knows they're important and they, they protect the public from themselves.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: And permitting. I remember a project I was on last year that somebody did decide to just assume they could go to Menards to buy some structural elements for a theater and the city came by and said, yeah, no. And they shut the project down. Required architecture and structure and all these people to get involved to do it. Right. I think a permit and inspector would see weird wiring things or a space that was potentially dark.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: But in this hotel scenario, it's more of a feeling, mood kind of thing. So how do you get people to understand that there's another way of creating that mood or. And that it doesn't cost that much? I mean, this just a right light bulb would have been.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: They, they actually had all the cost in that job. It just wasn't working. I mean, there could have been a better way to do it, but they had the cost in the job to do what it needed to do and it wasn't happening. When I tell people what I do, there are always people who say, oh my gosh, lighting is so important. You know, I really like to play with the lights in my room or I really, you know, like when the lighting is right. So there's. What do you think? What percentage of people do you think get it?
[00:11:13] Speaker A: I would say that the lighting specification market is about 5% of total luminaires sold in the United States. From my understanding, about 3 to 5%.
So I would use that I would
[00:11:29] Speaker B: say about 5% and maybe there's a couple that feel like it's a luxury and they can't afford it and they would have it if they could. So, you know, maybe as much as 8% the most.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll give you that. And then it depends on your, your market. Right. The conference I was just at is a building museum show. I would say 90% of that market understands how important lighting is.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: For sure.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: An AIA conference, 20%.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Oh man, I was going to give them 50.
Maybe not.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I guess you'd have to look at the total metrics of the show attendance.
How much is it? Architects and interior designers versus manufacturers or developers or such. We're going to be recording a episode this year at neocon. Yes, 50,000 people attending neocon.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Oh, how much can we talk about what we're doing there? There's some cool lighting things happening there.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: We can actually talk a lot about what's going on at Neocon. I am extremely excited about Neocon. I think the team at Neocon have taken on a risk that is not being talked about enough.
I think the manufacturers that are going to be there are taking on an amazing risk and I sure hope that it accomplishes its goal, which is ultimately lighting matters. Right. Like elevating light to that audience.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: So if 20% of that audience thinks lighting matters before they attend the show and that 20% is gonna be all jazzed about the things that we're doing with light at the show. What do you think? How much do you think we can move the needle? I think we can get to 25% by the end of the show. Can we get to 30%? We've got to have them bring their friends who don't get it and or people have to be stumbling by and seeing it and saying, wait a minute, what life does that? Oh, it's going to be fun.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: That's a great KPI that.
How do we track that?
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a problem with KPIs, right?
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah, we'd love it.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: The ones we want to measure, how do we measure?
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Right. Well, I think ultimately the attendance of Illuminate at Neocon. So for those who aren't aware, Neocon is a age old show, 50 plus years I believe, at the Merchandise Mart in Chicago, one of the largest buildings in this hemisphere. It's very cool building.
And they have decided to do a show within a show called Illuminated, which is basically putting a bunch of lighting manufacturers who believe that these 50,000 interior designers, owners, developers and architects are people that should know about light. It's amazing. Very simple. And there will be a number of vendors. There's also going to be a spotlight stage.
The number of sessions going on, little 30 minute sessions on Mondays and Monday and Tuesday.
There will also be.
Yes, on Monday night at 4 o', clock, there will be a panel discussion with two spectacular lighting designers that happen to host a podcast, Ms. Lisa and I, as well as a rep agent lady that works for a rep agency and we're working on an interior designer. And Al from Inside Lighting is going to be the moderator.
Just started putting together the title and some questions for all of us.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: You don't want to miss this. This is good stuff.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: This is really going to be incredible. And then we haven't even clicked on the most exciting part of this thing, which is the lighting vignettes.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: I know, I'm so stoked about those.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: And the vignettes are ways to explain light.
And, you know, the underlying goal is wait. Light can do that. Wait, really?
[00:15:50] Speaker B: That's it? Because you can't explain light with words as well as you can explain it by showing what it does. Correct.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: And I was reminded this week with some friends at Threshold that it's very, very similar to sound and acoustics. Right. You can't explain why you have to put two layers of drywall on that wall. You kind of have to trust it.
Or go behind a wall with two layers of drywall and hear the difference. I don't know, I'm just very excited about what Neocon's gonna do and I don't think I can say it enough, how honored and excited and I don't know, just risky a move. This is for the Neocon team and fortunate that they've agreed to do this.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: They're part of the 5%.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: They really are. They really are. So I hope all of you listening will make it to the greatest city in the world, Chicago, in June. Which is great because the lake is open and can get out on the water.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: June's a good time to go to Chicago. Yeah.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: But it should be amazing. And we'll be recording a podcast there as well. So hopefully there's a group of people that attend that and they realize it and they really see the value.
You know, the sessions that have been selected really center around great design, but also value.
We've talked about it. This right brain, left brain thing we have to do, right? The. The art and science. My two least favorite words describe lighting, but the art and science of lighting design, it.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: There is all of that lighting uses both brains.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. As Randy said at ILD during the conference this week, I had dinner with a couple of folks that I've known for a while, but haven't really, like, sat down and had dinner.
And one of my friends was also in lighting as a. She sells products.
And the other two, the other three people were.
One was an architect, one was an exhibit designer.
And we tried not to talk about light.
We got stuck in D.C. and I went to dinner with Claude Engel, who's working with us on o'. Hare. And he said, claude, we're exhausted. We have to get on this early flight tomorrow. Now all of a sudden, like, we just want to go have dinner, have some wine, hang out. Let's not talk about the work we're working on together. And sure enough, like, there is no way not to, like, talk about it. It's.
It's such a passion, what we do. And I think the audience has seen that in the people we've talked to. Right. This is. While this is our job, it's embedded in our lives. It's crazy when you think about it.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: It's how we see the world.
Yeah. We're viewing everything through that lens. We're always thinking about how we might light that differently or what could we. You know, let's. Let's dim the lights in this room. I mean, you know, I'm also the person who will get up and go pour myself a refill of water if I can see the picture. But, yeah, you know, we're going to go over there to the dimmers, and let's. Let's fix this room for them. This is what they need. I was at.
I was at a party recently, and they were handing out rave sticks, and they were setting them on this really annoying flickering setting. And I just kept grabbing everybody, switching it to the next. Next setting that was a softer, smoother flow of light because, yeah, it just. It's what we do. It's always about the light.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: I will throw out. This other, like, crazy thing is, for our booth, we did a backlit sign from superbrightleds.com because, you know, where else do you buy cheap LED stuff you need.
And in the process, I went to my buddy's place, Canon, that. That does printing. And he showed me a process they have of printing back, printing, graphics, two layers.
So when you look at this image, it's a grayscale, gorgeous image of New York, second city to Chicago.
Oh, I'll get those comments.
But then when you hold it up to light, it's a night view of Chicago. It's super cool. And we were showing it at the show, just showing to people. Cause it was a cool lighting trick. And people were like, wait, oh, is that front lit and backlit and all that? No, it's just pigment printed. Right. To be a lighting trick.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: I was like, that's.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: That's just cool.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: That's so fun.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: So we got some really exciting things coming this year, and I am very excited to be sharing this podcast with you, Lisa, and hopefully all our audience will follow along as we go.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: So I'm going to sign off with at the end of this week. I'm going. We've talked about our mutual love not just for lighting, but also for ku.
First of all, KU basketball, I don't know. But I am headed to Lawrence at the end of this week to adjust and final focus the lights on the new lights on the Campanile at Kansas. So that's a project that. That we're working on that we've been working on for a long time and just very special because it is at our alma mater.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: So that needed some new lighting. It was pretty bad.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: It did and it's looking good. It needs some aiming. We'll let you know after we get it done.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Well, Lisa, take photos before it gets aimed.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: And then take some photos after.
And then we should do an episode just talking about it, because I know you had some unique challenges in the process of procurement beyond the university. Just the world of lighting being lighting that I think would be valuable for the audience.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that'll be fun. That's another thing that we plan to do this year is talk a little bit more about the work that we're both doing. So it's going to be fun.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: It's going to be awesome. Well, Rock Chalk and take photos. We got a new football stadium going in, too.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah, right down in front of our. I'll take some pictures.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: One of our clients must go. Did all the lighting for the stadium.
So I don't know. We talked about it, but.
Well, there won't be any games at Allen Field House, but Allen Field House now turns red and blue during the games. It's very cool.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I haven't been there in a bit. I haven't been there in a couple seasons. Need to go. We talked about this. We're going.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: We're going. We're gonna. We're gonna do. There will be a fall recording in Lawrence. We. We have to make that happen.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Absolutely. Good.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: All right, well, Rock Chalk, March Madness is ahead of us.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: No offense to all the non rock chalkers out there. Lighting matters. We can all agree on that.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Lighting Matters. Thanks everybody.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: Lighting Matters. As we wrap up, we want to reiterate how much we value your time, and we hope you found it as much fun to listen to as we had creating it. Remember to like it and share this content with your friends and colleagues.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: The opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the sponsors.
Our content has general application, but we recommend obtaining personalized guidance from a professional IALD lighting designer such as RBLD or morelights for your next endeavor.
