Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast about Lighting matters. Our unflinching conversations uncover the nuances and complexities which shape the craft of lighting design.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: We explore the pivotal whys behind a lighting designer's choices and find honest answers to your most challenging lighting questions. Because lighting matters.
Welcome to the Lighting Matters podcast. I'm one of your co hosts, Lisa Reed with Reed Burkett Lighting Design.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: And I'm your other co host, Avi Moore with more lights. Welcome to the second half of 2026.
July 2nd, when we're recording this, the first half of the year is done. I don't know, Lisa, how'd the first half go for you?
[00:00:49] Speaker B: It's been busy. I can't believe half a year is gone.
That's what we always say. I just had a birthday, about to have an anniversary. So, you know, all those things make you contemplate life and what you're doing with your life. And I'm reading a really good book right now called the Meaning of youf Life and talking about contemplation and complexity versus complicated tasks and encouraging us me people to think about the complex, the unanswerable questions and spend some time off our devices.
So anyway, that's where I am.
It's been busy.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Fun. Yeah.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: How about you?
[00:01:31] Speaker A: We could have used a better first half of the year financially, but man, crazy month. We're just getting off of between museum show. We got the Holocaust Museum in LA squared away.
They were pouring concrete the day before they opened. It was kind of.
And now they're still kind of finishing some stuff up. Arp was the lighting designer of record. We implemented a lot of their design. So it was kind of a fun challenge there.
We had Neocon here, which we'll talk about a little bit, which was amazing.
And then speaking of anniversaries, Rachel and I celebrated our 10 year anniversary. We went to Paris, which was incredible, Monet's home. And I just.
If you haven't been, it's a great city to explore and like the lighting history of Paris is really interesting.
Where I think it was Napoleon who really kind of pushed lighting the city. Right. Becoming a city of light. So that was kind of interesting and
[00:02:40] Speaker B: totally teed that up for you. I was hoping you would talk about Paris. Congratulations on your anniversary.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean today's the second, so the official day is the third and I literally just wrote down like, yeah, flowers tomorrow for sure.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Well, ours is on the 4th and it'll be 34 years, but we're going to be apart anyway.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Oh, sad.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: So this won't get published before then, so I will share.
We moved our office the first half of this year, so that's been busy. And in that movement, I found. Let's see. I found my first IES membership certificate.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Maybe my only one from when I was a student at University of Kansas. And I found a poster from La Traviata that Todd and I went to sort of like the week of our first date. It was a class assignment. So I am going to figure out a really unique way to give that to him, even though I'm not going to be with him on the date of our anniversary, so.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Oh, that sounds amazing.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: That's my plan.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Very cool.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Other project things, lighting things. We've talked about it before, but our team has finally, finally wrapped up the lighting at the Campanile at the University of Kansas and have gotten some nice pictures from KU on that. It's looks like we wanted it to. It looks like it wanted to.
I made that comment to someone. You know, it always had warm light on the tower and then white light on the top and it just wasn't super effective. And yet in your imagination, you fill in the blanks and you picture it a certain way. And so we just made it look the way it always wanted to.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Do you think that that's now because we have better technology to be able to make that work, or do you think that it was potentially not designed and now it's designed? Is it a combination of the two? How do you think it. It got to where it was and how you were able to make it what it is today?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: I think it probably is better technology.
What it was before were giant floodlights on the ground, one on each side.
And now we have those up on poles. Just gives them a little bit more protection from people coming along, doing what they want to them. You couldn't have done that very easily with the size and scale of the old technology.
Plus, it's just so much more crisp and dialed in to the edges. A lot less spill light. I'll attribute the technology. I don't know. I mean, I'm like sitting here wanting to take credit because it was just. Because it was good design finally, but.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Right. Well, I mean, I guess I kind of think about it because it's another kind of monumental piece, kind of like the arch. And you and Randy gave a great presentation at ild. Was that two years ago talking about like where it was and where it is today and the technology that changed over time to make that work?
Yes, there's a technology change But I wonder if somebody just was like, oh, yeah, here's floodlights. Or maybe I guess we will never know how it was done before. Was that rep designed or was there really a lighting designer versus now having a lighting designer and having amazing technology that can be as precise as it can be.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I was thinking about that kind of intentionality this morning. One of our neighbors is doing a little Home Edition and when I take my morning walk, I can see the progress. And a week or so ago, my husband had talked to them and they said, oh, we think we'd like to get Lisa to help us with the lights. They need to be in in three weeks. And I haven't heard from them and I probably won't until it's done. But I was just thinking about intentionality and about how, you know, there's just a little bit of lack of education, that you can't just go to the store and buy appropriate lights. That it, it is something that has to be planned and designed. So I, my guess is maybe the first time the Campanile was, this is what we could go get at the distributor, but we could go get at the warehouse. And now it's a little bit more planned.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: And the products you use weren't something you could just like go to the home center and get right. Takes a little time to collect it. And like you said, you put it up on poles. So that took some designing and getting and stuff. And it takes design.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Right? And in this case, there was even a landscape plaza that was done ahead of time, years ahead of time. And so we had to do some make ready planning with conduit and getting things in the ground, into the right place underneath the plaza ahead of time, and then come back years later and complete the design.
So that's reminding me of another project that may or may not be worth mentioning. Just having some interesting, very public hiccups. But we are the lighting designers on the Gordie Howe International Bridge from Detroit to Windsor, Canada. And we got word that the bridge had finally opened. Hooray, it opened. And then, and then word that no, it, the opening was slow, stopped. So there's a lot of political things happening around our project. And we're over here just like, we're just the lighting designers. We just want to make it look good. Even if it never opens, we want it to look good. It's standing there.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I've been doing a lot of soul searching lately and thinking about how, and we've talked about this on the podcast that nobody ever questions if there's going to be a structural engineer or electrical. Mechanical engineer, or maybe question the mechanical engineer. Electrical engineer in a home build, but in a commercial project, maybe. I mean, there's never a question whether you're going to have MEP fb, but there's always a question whether you're going to have a lighting designer. And we got to fix that. We got to change that. And we're doing that right. That's what the podcast is about out there.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: There's really good traction around that. I think. I'm seeing a lot of, a lot of people in the industry talking the way we've been talking on the podcast. And I won't claim credit for it, but we're all influencing each other to talk about lighting design in that way. It's essential. It shouldn't be an afterthought.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, that's almost like a lovely transition into talking about Illuminate at neocon.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: I obviously am a little one sided about it, but I'd love to get your take on what you saw and your experience that Illuminate it was great, Avi.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: I mean, I mean, I'm sure that you've gotten a lot of accolades because it was really good to go do a lighting thing and not be talking to lighting people only to really get out of our lighting echo chamber and talk to other people who influence, specify, think about lighting people who, who have the power to make sure that lighting designers do get on every project. So it was so, so good to see that. One of the funniest anecdotes and I'm sure it'll turn up on our podcast somewhere. But one of the lighting manufacturers who was showing in their booth, they said the question they were getting the most was not what is that light fixture, you know, what's the source? But it was what is that paint on your wall in your booth? You know, and so really, I think it was great for us to get out of our own heads and into the heads of our clients and really learn what's important to them.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Great response. I mean, I was extremely nervous leading up to Illuminate. I was reminded, and I want to put this out there in recording land. I was reminded by our past guest, Joe Zamore that legucation started with six tables and now they have a waiting list. And you know, those ballrooms are totally full. But that's a show of lighting people talking to lighting people. Right. This is a show about lighting design and products available to facilitate lighting design.
And, you know, it was a new environment New people. And I would say it was extremely successful. In a period of five months we got 60 manufacturers to bring their booths and bring their staffs. We had some educational vignettes which we'll talk about a little bit. We had some amazing TED talk like sessions that light I helped record and you'll be seeing those recordings coming out over the next few months. And we had a great panel session on the main stage. I had never felt like such loyalty and that also we'll put a link here. You can see that on the Neocon website. It is now posted. Found it last night. It's on YouTube.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Oh, that's fantastic. I was going to bring that up if you didn't. It was my favorite part to really share the stage with people from other disciplines.
Lighting designers, us, but also interior designers and lighting manufacturers rep and to get their take on it and to be realistic about. Okay, yes, we want lighting designers on every project, but if we don't, what are we going to do to make sure that lighting is better in the world?
[00:12:16] Speaker A: I had a bunch of people come up after and just really enjoyed it. And there was a few people that came up and said, wow, you, you didn't hold anything back. I mean the liability statement I made got a couple of people's eyes like, it's like, yeah, well somebody's responsible for meeting light levels. Who's that going to be? So yeah, we'll, we'll include a link for that. Yeah, I think it was really amazing what we did in such a short period of time. I did have a, a check in with Amart recently.
They're all in. They're looking forward to doing this again for many years into the future, making it bigger, expanding. And then there was the educational vignettes which I think were just incredible opportunity for education.
And we had the whole more lights team there and some special guests to help people kind of walk through all these vignettes. And there'll be a video coming out on that too shortly. And we had some great lighting design partners throughout that. But I got to do a shout out to two manufacturers that I think really like went all in on this. And the first one is LSI Lighting Services Inc. They at the last minute helped us put together a side by side color discussion and we made it interactive with a touchscreen. You could adjust color temperatures. We had two boards that Sean Murphy in my office made of different samples of finishes. We got a lot of great reaction to that. And they also helped do this art installation with Artlifting. We'll Include another link below on that as well.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: That was incredible.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Just an incredible story.
The artist and what artlifting does is just. I can't do it justice. You have to take a minute, go to artlifting's website, read the article we'll post about Eliza's work, which was incredible. An incredible lady to be working with. But, you know, LSI is a past sponsor of the podcast. I have no huge fans of what they do and the products they make. And anyway, so they really stepped it up, right?
[00:14:33] Speaker B: And we talked to them at NeoCon, and maybe you'll get to hear that conversation in a future episode.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: And then we had electronic theater controls, which it was incredible. As I was working with Sohana. She is a lady who ultimately ideated these vignettes. And she had this idea of a photo booth where light came from different directions. And the way that I always presented it to people walking down the hallway was, how's the lighting in your hotel room? And every single person I talked, it's terrible. The light's in the wrong place. This, that and the other. I said, okay, go into this photo booth and take the four photos of. And this is going to show different directions of lighting. So first of all, that was really cool. It was a really great educational element. But on top of that, as I got into this idea, I was like, wait, I mean, we've all been in photo booths, right? We have the IES events and things like that. And the way those things work is you push a button, it counts down, right? It takes a photo, gives you two seconds, takes another photo, prints it out. So what's the problem? We need a lighting cue to change between each photo.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: This is not a easy idea. And what ETC did is they wrote software. They wrote a photo booth software to make this work. Now, mind you, etc agreed to get involved with this about 45 days before neocon opened. And they took it upon themselves to buy the printer, get a camera, put all this together. I mean, it was incredible.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: And it worked. It worked beautifully. It was a really, really fun vignette.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: It was so much fun. You know, I did it with the kids. We'll put that photo in here. Lisa and I did it together.
Randy Reed from Edison Report did it. I think Al did it too, from inside lighting. Everybody who went by had to be in the photo. And what's amazing and why, like, so much amazement to etc is that they're like, oh, we gotta make this bigger, right? We gotta let people pick directions before they go in. We gotta have a screen that Shows the photos and cycles through them.
We got to save them. I mean, this was literally take four photos and print them.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah, but they're going to do more.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: We were talking about this before and Etc does a lot with us, ITT and some other educational elements that they do. Like, I mean, I could see this being in their booth for years to come. Right. Like, this is, it's super cool and
[00:17:19] Speaker B: it's great because it's getting the message out there that lighting matters. It's good message for them. Yeah. But it's also good for lighting in general.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, so 2027 is at this point, 11 months away.
It's next year is June, June 13, 14, 15, 16.
And so, you know, we're starting to plan already. Anybody who is out there interested in getting involved, we're going to have a call for speakers here soon.
Call for being involved in the vignettes, both for manufacturers and lighting designers.
That's all going to be coming out here. Our goal is to have a lot of the planning, kind of initial planning put together by the end of the summer so that, you know, we're not doing this in two months time. We have a little bit more experience.
And then, Lisa, you kind of alluded to this, but we have some really great discussions we had with 10 different manufacturers that exhibited.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: Well, I'm excited to share those conversations with everybody because I really, I wasn't sure what they were going to say. I mean, you know, if you want to talk about negatives, we were on a quieter floor of Neocon, kind of tucked in the back. And, and when we first sat down with those manufacturers, I didn't know if they were going to say, well, it was fun but. But they were all super positive and really pumped about making it bigger and better next year. Even talking about things like, do you know the mart has projection mapping and can we do some sort of light show or nighttime lighting tours? And I don't want to steal all the thunder from what we'll be publishing in future episodes, but there's just, people love looking at big lighting installations.
We know people love light. They're attracted to it. And this is making me think about another project we're working on, but I don't want to. If you had more to say about Neocon, we can come back to that.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Well, I was just going to say that I think one of the big things that we, that you'll hear in the sessions we had with those manufacturers that I just want to bring even more attention to is that we as an industry ask of these manufacturers on, I think far too many dollars beyond just their core marketing strategies.
And I hope that in addition to elevating the professional lighting design, we can also find how to reduce the amount of asks. I mean, listen, we here at Lighting Matters are as much to blame. Cause we would like any of you to come sponsor us anytime, please.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: We'll take sponsors.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: But you know, I was talking to somebody recently about when you think of the mart, and you think of Neocon and you think of the manufacturers involved in Neocon, furniture, paint, some of those things, those are bigger than some of our biggest conglomerates in the lighting industry.
But they aren't involved in nearly as much as we ask our manufacturers to be involved in. And that has to change.
In addition to whatever comes of light plus build us.
And I will stop there because that's probably the most appropriate thing for me to do. Neocon's a real thing and you'll hear that from these manufacturers. But if that comes into play, then something else has to go.
And what is that? And how do we as an industry, as lighting designers tell our manufacturers, well, this, this you don't have to do anymore because this is important or, you
[00:21:06] Speaker B: know, I don't know, stealing one more comment from one of the manufacturers we talked to afterward though, if you've read the book Blue Ocean Strategy, this is a blue ocean for them. This is new market. So we're helping our lighting manufacturers hopefully reach new potential clients and increase their visibility. At least increase their sales ultimately. That's the question. Cool.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: So, you know, I just wanted to float that one out there because I think it is really important that we don't add more. And I don't think you were part of the article, but there were some other folks that were part of the article about we have too many organizations in the lighting world. And, you know, another great transition to a recent memorandum of understanding between NLB and ies, which is very exciting.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really cool news.
I gotta dig into two more, but congratulations to everybody involved. I think this is good.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, it's like, how do we keep helping that situation?
It's about making sure that everybody can still do what they want to do, right? Women, lighting, nlb, ies, ild.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: But also making sure we're all rowing in the same direction. We're not fighting each other.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Correct. And there is only so many dollars. So how do we, you know, strengthen ourselves in numbers while maintaining that certain amount of dollars and then take that blue ocean and make it bigger.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yay. Yay lighting.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yay lighting. Yeah. You were talking about another project that yay lighting.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: We last week, two weeks ago, we spent several all nighters. You know, these things have to happen during the longest day of the year season.
But anyway, a couple of the designers on our team stayed all night. I usually went home at midnight. But we're working on some exterior lighting for the cathedral Basilica in St. Louis. A few years ago we designed the interior, but the exterior of this Byzantine architecture is just with domes and I mean it is just stunning. And it's got a few floodlights on it now. Kind of like the old campanile. Right. And so we were doing mock ups with multiple, you know, different, you know, is it a linear, is it a point source? We had a 72 foot lift. The contractors were absolute champions crawling out on edges and you know, getting to these, all these different ledges so that we can confirm the light sources for all these beautiful niches and highlighting them. And it was just delightful to be out there with Monsignor Breyer who was practically doing a dance. He's so excited about getting this done. And the building itself is just really important. And even if you're not Catholic, it's a stunning piece of architecture and it's important to the city of St. Louis. And the point was just, you know, it's big and it's large and it has presence and it's, you know, everybody walking by while we were doing mock ups had to stop and ask what we were doing. And I just, I love the way that lighting stops people, makes them stop and look. So anyway, that's an exciting one that's coming along for us here.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Speaking of the cathedrals, you know, it's not either one of our projects but if you are in Paris, you have to see what they, how they've re illuminated. Notre Dame. Yeah, I do remember going about 12 years ago and how dark and such it was and really well done. There's still very much in construction after the fire, but you can get inside now and walk around and it is, it's incredible. It really is. It's amazing. And when you really like dive in the history and I remember an art history class and architecture class and art history class, like learning about the cathedral and then being able to see it. And now you can like really see it, right?
[00:25:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean I went when I was in college. I was just a kid. That's the last, the only time I've seen it. And I remember being awestruck. But now you Said with new lighting. I must go.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: There's one stained glass window that is different than many of the others that I found just awestrifing, shocking to me.
Europe just has such amazing sites, Right. And I mean, Paris is in UNESCO City, right? I mean, it's just.
Yeah, it's so fun when we get to do these. These amazing environments. And it comes back to that. Like you were talking about Monsignor, The. The emotion. Right. Like, really, light is so connected to the emotion that our clients ultimately want to create of their customers. Right. And we are the shepherds, Right.
Helping that emotion, helping to invoke that emotion. I think in our IALD interviews last year, I think it was so interesting to hear that kind of repeated concept, right. That. That we don't tell stories.
We support those stories. We are shepherds of the story. And sometimes we tweak it as part of a conversation, but it's somebody else's story that we are supporting and then adding that emotional element or supporting that emotional element that they wanted.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: I think talking about light in that way, I'm just seeing more and more people posting on LinkedIn and things about trying to put words around this thing that is so visual. I mean, that's why the vignettes at NEOCOM were so effective, because we were able to visually show and not just tell with words, but when we do try to put words around it, it's those. It's talking about emotion and story and impact and not so much about just the way the space looks.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Light and health and all that stuff. Okay. But you feel better and you happen to be in a healthier environment.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:24] Speaker A: Just one more thing I want to throw out, which you kind of alluded to, but I'd like to give it a little bit of space.
Is our current IALD president being quoted by Edison Report to say that we have to elevate the profession? That's pretty exciting.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: I do think that is the job of the iald, and I'm excited to hear that that's what's on our new president's mind.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Same, unfortunately. I'm a little jaded, though, so I'd like to get beyond the words and see the action.
And I'm really excited to see what action actually ensues again.
We're recording on July 2nd.
The ILD just had its European conference. That's where that quote came from.
She's been in president for six months. Like, what's the action that we're taking as an organization? I look forward to seeing that. I'M glad that we have that in writing.
I would like to see some action, whatever it is with that. Maybe we should call this one. And we hope you will enjoy hearing a little bit more about Illuminate at Neocon from some of the manufacturers we spoke to over the next couple of episodes.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: I saw Shrek the Musical last night. So I'm gonna go out with Always inspiring to see what lighting designers do in that kind of environment. But so I'll go out with let your freak flag fly people.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: And I just saw Toy Story 5 with the kids. You gotta see it if you're a Pixar fan. And you'll probably need to watch it about five more times because I know there's things I missed in that movie. But the kid in you and what they do. The lighting in those.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Also a lighting. Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Oh my God.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: I haven't seen it yet.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: So I always come back to that IALD conference in Sonoma, California. Best IALD conference ever. It should always just be in Sonoma. Wine and lighting people. If we're going to do something, we might as well drink good wine. But they had a presentation from the lighting designer for Kung Fu Panda. And for those of you who have not seen Kung Fu Panda, Po is a black and white panda and he wants to get the Dragon Scroll. The Dragon scroll is lit in green and gold light. And he talks about the fact that this last scene where Po and the Dragon scroll. I don't want to ruin it for anybody, but it's a green lit space.
Po cannot be green because he's a black and white panda. So in rendering that scene, Poe is lit with the light that exists in the space.
But the color of the light does not affect Poe hoe, which is not realistic. It's not, but it's what you can do in 3D rendering technology. I mean, in 3D Studio Max, there's a checkbox. Don't let this material affect be affected by the color of this light. I don't think it. I don't think it's that long, but it's there. But it was just. It's just it always. Whenever I see one of these movies, whether it's illumination or Pixar, Disney, I always think of that presentation. It was so great. I wish we had it recorded.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Talking about the influence of material on the light in your space. Sounds like another whole show.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Another whole show. Yeah.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Thanks for chatting.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Good to see you, Lisa. Happy second half of the year to you and our Reed Burkett team.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: Same to you. I hope the second half of your year is better than the first. And always ascending.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Always ascending. Thanks everybody.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: Lighting Matters as we wrap up, we want to reiterate how much we value your time, and we hope you found it as much fun to listen to as we had creating it. Remember to like it and share this content with your friends and colleagues.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: The opinions expressed are those of the participants and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the sponsors. Our content has general application, but we recommend obtaining personalized guidance from a professional IALD lighting designer such as RBLD or More Lights for your next endeavor.
